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PostPosted: December 17 17, 8:12 pm 
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Yeah, Wainwright is pretty clearly the 5th starter, but he's also going to have an incredibly long leash, just because of who he is.

Just like every other MLB team, the Cards will need some innings out of other guys. Fortunately, they have other guys.


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PostPosted: December 17 17, 9:13 pm 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
Yeah, Wainwright is pretty clearly the 5th starter, but he's also going to have an incredibly long leash, just because of who he is.

Just like every other MLB team, the Cards will need some innings out of other guys. Fortunately, they have other guys.


Projection systems still kind of like Wainwright. His era has been worse that’s his FIP for 2 years. And even at 36, his walk rate should drop. Steamer thinks he is a 2 win starter with an FIP around 4 over just 170 innings. That’s better than 5th starter production.

Not too bad at the back of our rotation.

Wacha also showed an era much higher than his FIP the last two years. Defense has not helped our pitchers.... he is at about 3 WAR in just 167 innings, which is solid #3 starter stuff. 3rd time through the order... blah blah blah... that’s what you get with non-elite starter. Some kind of damning flaw. Which is why they aren’t elite. Wacha is a fine guy to have in the role he is in.

In my opinion, the season will rest on Weavers performance. He could be your #4-#5, or he could be that #2 that we need. He is the differnce for us between really contending for the division and just being in the playoff mix. Everyone else is a “what you see is what you get” arm with little reason to expect a big step forward or back.

Maybe Martinez has that Cy Young caliber season that he is capable of and will probably have at least 1-2 times in his career.


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PostPosted: December 17 17, 11:05 pm 
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I would not hesitate to get Archer or Greinke if the opportunity presented itself, but I agree with those who said just getting another innings-eater like Leake is not what the team needs. The pitching staff is a ton like the position players - tons of league average or maybe slightly above average, but very few (if any) stars.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 5:21 am 
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Wainwright might start taking that stuff for old guys with low testosterone and surprise everybody.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 8:07 am 
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MinorLeagueGuy wrote:
The other thing that happens when you remove Wacha from the rotation, is the manager always trying to get him that "W".


Wacha averaged 5.5 innings and 90 pitches per start.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 8:26 am 
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I think the Cards should look at this season as having at least an 8 man staff.....Martinez, Wacha, Wainwright, Weaver, Mikolas, Flaherty, Hudson, and maybe Lyons need to combine for 1,000 innings.

I could also see the team looking to acquire a starter or two by the deadline.

But I don't think we need a specific 5 man rotation right away. The depth gives us a lot of good options.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 9:20 am 
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dmarx114 wrote:
I think the Cards should look at this season as having at least an 8 man staff.....Martinez, Wacha, Wainwright, Weaver, Mikolas, Flaherty, Hudson, and maybe Lyons need to combine for 1,000 innings.

I could also see the team looking to acquire a starter or two by the deadline.

But I don't think we need a specific 5 man rotation right away. The depth gives us a lot of good options.


The problem with this is I think pitchers really get out of wack when they get extra rest just as much as they are when they get less rest. I think with an 8 man staff, you run the risk of pitchers having too much time off and it hurting their performance.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 9:48 am 
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Yeah, the Cards aren't going with an 8-man rotation.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 9:52 am 
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Magneto2.0 wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:
I think the Cards should look at this season as having at least an 8 man staff.....Martinez, Wacha, Wainwright, Weaver, Mikolas, Flaherty, Hudson, and maybe Lyons need to combine for 1,000 innings.

I could also see the team looking to acquire a starter or two by the deadline.

But I don't think we need a specific 5 man rotation right away. The depth gives us a lot of good options.


The problem with this is I think pitchers really get out of wack when they get extra rest just as much as they are when they get less rest. I think with an 8 man staff, you run the risk of pitchers having too much time off and it hurting their performance.


Yeah, I didn't mean that they would have a continuous 8 man staff. Of course they will only have a 5 man staff. I am just saying the Cards should be counting on 8 guys to make starts throughout the season, as opposed to just penciling in 5, and waiting for someone to get hurt or suck.


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PostPosted: December 18 17, 9:55 am 
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dmarx114 wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:
I think the Cards should look at this season as having at least an 8 man staff.....Martinez, Wacha, Wainwright, Weaver, Mikolas, Flaherty, Hudson, and maybe Lyons need to combine for 1,000 innings.

I could also see the team looking to acquire a starter or two by the deadline.

But I don't think we need a specific 5 man rotation right away. The depth gives us a lot of good options.


The problem with this is I think pitchers really get out of wack when they get extra rest just as much as they are when they get less rest. I think with an 8 man staff, you run the risk of pitchers having too much time off and it hurting their performance.


Yeah, I didn't mean that they would have a continuous 8 man staff. Of course they will only have a 5 man staff. I am just saying the Cards should be counting on 8 guys to make starts throughout the season, as opposed to just penciling in 5, and waiting for someone to get hurt or suck.


Oh okay. That makes sense


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