Steve Phillips' NL Central comments

[docellis]

I assume they get to pick which questions they answer.

I wonder why he wanted to answer something he was uninformed about...

[maddash]

To be honest, one of the things that does bother me about the modern slate of books about baseball history (Neyer's, for instance, and even some of Bill James' stuff - and I bow to no one in my admiration for both men's work) is the application of modern sabermetric standards on the old teams, usually in the context of "so-and-so was really the best player in the league that year" based on some measure that didn't exist in that day.

Fact is, a guy like, say, Matty Alou (to use my own example of my own personal favorite from my early years of fandom) was clearly considered, in his prime, to be a very good major league player, even though through the benefit of 20-20 sabemetric hindsight, he doesn't look as good.

I think, though, it's rather presumptuous of today's analysts to basically imply that we should go back in time and tell yesterday's fans that their favorite stars weren't really that good.

Or maybe I just haven't gotten over Neyer rating Homer Smoot as the Cards' best all-time rookie center fielder.

I think this is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of sabermetrics. There are no new numbers being applied to the old time players. So hindsight is really impossible - the information we have now is exactly what we had back then. Everything you can record on a score sheet is what people who use sabermetrics go off of - they simply add, subtract, multiply the numbers in different ways (which offer us new interpretations). But no new numbers are being created, it's all just good old wholesome score sheets being viewed in a different way.

[Socnorb11]

I assume they get to pick which questions they answer.

I wonder why he wanted to answer something he was uninformed about...

I think he found it to be an interesting question, so he gave his opinion............ which seems to be the general format of the chat sessions.

If you want information about Ankiel's option situation, I wouldn't waste my time sending the question to Phillips.

[Jmodene]

Well, I know that, Mad, but the thing is, back in the 1930's and 1940's, players weren't being rated sabermetrically, even though, as you correctly point out, the base numbers were there.

But sabemetrics didn't exist - all the vast majority knew was BA-HR-RBI. But that doesn't mean that their analyses, at the time, were invalid simply because they didn't have today's tools.

Even as late as the 1980's, people were resistant to the notion of even paying attention to a batter's walks. (I introduced the concept of OBA to the leagues in Guam in the early 1990's, in an effort to show that some players - Elbert Certeza comes to mind - were actually quite valuable despite their .240 BA's, because they walked so often - Elbert's OBA was closer to .550.)

I digress. My point is that I've seen any number of comments that basically imply that the fans and writers of yesteryear were stupid for considering so-and-so a great player when the modern analysis shows that he wasn't. I particularly remember Bill James' assertion in one of the Historical Abstracts comparing Frank Frisch to Rick Burleson, even though Frisch was considered one of the great stars of his day and Burleson was, really, just a Scrappy White Guy, albeit a very good (pre-injury) one.

[Knot Hole Gang Vet]

Let's see now; have any pitchers been turned into outfielders and been successful at all?

A couple of marginal players come to mind right away: one was Stan Musial, and the other fellow played for the Yankees- I think his name was Babe Ruth.

You'll never know if you don't try.

[Jmodene]

Lefty O'Doul. Decent lefthanded starter, won a couple of batting titles (admittedly, while playing in the Baker Bowl) as an outfielder.

Willie Smith gained some fame in the early 1960's for making the pitcher-to-everyday-player transition at the major league level.

The reverse happens, too - Bob Lemon started out as a third baseman. Other players (Bob Forsch, Woody Williams, Trevor Hoffman) made the transition in the minors.

[DynamicDynamite]

just have to remember this... on Baseball Tonig when asked if the Cardinals season was finished Eric Young said it wasn't and Phillips said it was...

but at the same time said the Yankees weren't finished(Yanks are currently 9.5 games out of first in a tough division), and we are 5.5 out in a weak division...

and he said the White Sox weren't finished even though their pitching and offense havent done anything to warrant them having success...

and the fact that they are having to get ahead of 2 really good teams and it wont happen.