Elite 8: 1. Barry Bonds vs. 2. Stan Musial

Discuss all things Cardinals Baseball

1. Barry Bonds vs. 2. Stan Musial

Barry Bonds
22
38%
Stan Musial
36
62%
 
Total votes: 58

M1IRONMIKE
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Post by M1IRONMIKE »

maddash wrote:
redbirdjazzz wrote:
haltz wrote:
1. Barry Bonds vs. 2. Stan Musial
Barry Bonds 24% [ 6 ]
Stan Musial 76% [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 25
Wow.
Wow?
Reasonable arguments possible for each + dislike/distrust of Bonds + this is a Cardinals board = The Man wins
Ok, then why is Ted Williams trouncing Lou Gherig on the very same board? I mean, it's the same match-up. Williams is obviously a better player, but he was also an all around jerk (Gherig was about as "nice guy" as you can get"). .
Williams earned the right to be a jerk by fighting in 2 wars and losing 5 years of his career to do it and never once complaining about it....thats the difference.....John Glenn said "Ted Williams was the best fighter pilot I ever seen"........nuff said

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Wekse5
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Post by Wekse5 »

bondsbondsbonds....i'm not surprised that he is getting beat, but getting beat by such a wide margin? whatever.

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haltz
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Post by haltz »

redbirdjazzz wrote:Reasonable arguments possible for each + dislike/distrust of Bonds + this is a Cardinals board = The Man wins
I'm not surprised he is winning, just that he is kicking the #### out of Bonds when he was the inferior player. I don't understand why being a jerk has anything to do with it either. I love watching Bonds play, same goes for Gary Sheffield in that vein, and really, I don't care about the words that come out of their mouths. They are baseball players.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote here, but yeah, I think that Stan getting 76% of the votes is a little absurd, at least it's come down to more of a simple majority. Basically, Williams and Ruth would be winning this round if they were up against Musial, and the knocks against Barry are more personal feelings and anecdotes.

People act like Bonds punched their sister in the face, and I really don't get that. I would actually like someone to explain it to me, not the merits of it, I'm pretty sure where I stand there, just why there is SUCH an overwhelming hatred for the guy.

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stretch
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Post by stretch »

haltz wrote:
redbirdjazzz wrote:Reasonable arguments possible for each + dislike/distrust of Bonds + this is a Cardinals board = The Man wins
I'm not surprised he is winning, just that he is kicking the #### out of Bonds when he was the inferior player. I don't understand why being a jerk has anything to do with it either. I love watching Bonds play, same goes for Gary Sheffield in that vein, and really, I don't care about the words that come out of their mouths. They are baseball players.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote here, but yeah, I think that Stan getting 76% of the votes is a little absurd, at least it's come down to more of a simple majority. Basically, Williams and Ruth would be winning this round if they were up against Musial, and the knocks against Barry are more personal feelings and anecdotes.

People act like Bonds punched their sister in the face, and I really don't get that. I would actually like someone to explain it to me, not the merits of it, I'm pretty sure where I stand there, just why there is SUCH an overwhelming hatred for the guy.
He dissed Jack Buck.

He is an ass.

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Post by maddash »

It would be interesting to tally votes from other boards on this match-up... like with did with Gibby vs. Clemens.

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ghostrunner
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Post by ghostrunner »

Bonds.

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Post by Gashouse »

I reluctantly voted for Bonds.

But if I had to pick between the two of them in some sort of all-time fantasy league, I'm still not sure who I'd pick.

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Laodocus8
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Post by Laodocus8 »

jim wrote:Rather than speculate on this or that, I've chosen to simply look at performance, and his performance has no peer except for maybe Ruth. And that's maybe, depending on how you look at it.
"Baseball Between The Numbers", which you reference earlier, starts off with the Bonds vs. Ruth debate. Here's the conclusion they come to:
Our statistics give about a 100-run lifetime advantage to Babe Ruth, considering his batting, pitching, and fielding and accounting fairly for his era. That is certainly close enough that Bonds could make up the difference with good seasons in 2006 and 2007.
So, I would say it's still Ruth, by a nose. I know you said "depending on how you look at it," but Ruth's pitching was part of his accomplishment and has to be included when considering his overall greatness.

I'm getting ahead of myself, as we're not to that vote yet (and probably won't get to that considering the vote totals here). As for this matchup, it pains me to do so, but Bonds was the better player (not the better human) and gets my vote.

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Post by jim »

Laodocus8 wrote:
jim wrote:Rather than speculate on this or that, I've chosen to simply look at performance, and his performance has no peer except for maybe Ruth. And that's maybe, depending on how you look at it.
"Baseball Between The Numbers", which you reference earlier, starts off with the Bonds vs. Ruth debate. Here's the conclusion they come to:
Our statistics give about a 100-run lifetime advantage to Babe Ruth, considering his batting, pitching, and fielding and accounting fairly for his era. That is certainly close enough that Bonds could make up the difference with good seasons in 2006 and 2007.
So, I would say it's still Ruth, by a nose. I know you said "depending on how you look at it," but Ruth's pitching was part of his accomplishment and has to be included when considering his overall greatness.

I'm getting ahead of myself, as we're not to that vote yet (and probably won't get to that considering the vote totals here). As for this matchup, it pains me to do so, but Bonds was the better player (not the better human) and gets my vote.
Yes, I read that chapter. I've read several Ruth vs Bonds debates, and you really could make a case for either. Depends on perspective.

I've yet to read a serious Musial vs Bonds debate, including this thread.

I will reluctantly vote for Bonds as long as he continues on this poll, up until he faces Ruth. At that point, I'll have to think long and hard.

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vance
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Post by vance »

maddash wrote:It would be interesting to tally votes from other boards on this match-up... like with did with Gibby vs. Clemens.
I'll see what I can do this weekend on that.

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