Pitcher Errors-unearned runs

[fanforever]

Yesterday in the flashchat balltillyafall4 asked an interesting question:

Should runs be counted as earned runs of the pitcher himself makes the error? Currently they count as an unearned run with the reasoning being it was considered an "mistake" by the pitcher.

[Joe Wells]

It seems to me that if ERA is a measure of pitching effectiveness, then errors should be unearned. If a pitcher blows a fielding play, the resulting run is his fault, but not due to his pitching performance.

[Cole Burns]

Detroit's Pitchers' fielding last year in the WS shows how important being able to field the position is. Since no one really tracks a pitcher's fielding pct, including runs scored due to pitcher fielding errors in the pitcher's ERA would be one way to statistically "penalize" a pitcher with poor fielding.

[jim]

For historical purposes, yes. When I can get the info, I would rather look at total runs allowed than earned runs allowed. For example, 2 outs nobody on the guy reaches first on an error. Next hitter hits a home run - both runs are unearned, but obviously the pitcher had something to do with those.

[Cole Burns]

For historical purposes, yes. When I can get the info, I would rather look at total runs allowed than earned runs allowed. For example, 2 outs nobody on the guy reaches first on an error. Next hitter hits a home run - both runs are unearned, but obviously the pitcher had something to do with those.

Agreed

Along those lines (and I'm not much of a stat guy, so forgive me), I think reliever ERAs are not very relevant. Usually a reliever will put someon on and then get pulled. The next pitcher determines if the first gets and earned run. But the reliever's job is to keep people on base from scoring. Do they track inherited runs allowed? I think this would be a more accurate representation of a reliever's actual performance.

[haltz]

Depends on what you want to look at. As long as you know what ERA is telling you then it's useful for that. There's also RA like Jim mentioned and pitcher's fielding stats.

Over the short term I don't care much for ERA regardless and I'm not sure what a fielding error would be telling you about future runs crossing the plate. Over the long term I don't suppose it'd make that much of a difference if runs by pitcher fielding error were included, especially if it were included for all pitchers.

That said, I would be interested in someone quantifying what a Jim Kaat or Greg Maddux or good fielding pitchers are worth in defensive value.

[Mary1966]

I know about this because it's happened twice to the Twins this year:


http://mvn.com/mlb-twins/2007/05/08/mor ... k-off-win/

Boof Bonser improved his ERA by taking a page out of Sidney Ponson’s book. Bonser gave up four runs [against the Chicago White Sox on May 8th], but only one was earned thanks to his own throwing error in the sixth inning. If you recall, Ponson gave up four runs on Sunday [May 6th] against the Red Sox. One of those was unearned, also thanks to his own throwing error.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

No, ERA is a reflection of pitching ability, not pitching + fielding ability.

[UK]

It doesn't matter if it's him or another defender that committed the error, it shouldn't be there.

Just use runs allowed if you want to factor defense into the equation more.

[cabby7588]

I'm torn, I don't think it should, because your ERA should reflect how you PITCH, not how you play...Then again, rewarding a guy like Maddux who is really good on defense is kind of cool. I voted no, but I'm torn.