Of course this is all subjective, but I've got to put Tony above Red. I remember the Red era and I don't think he fought half the adversity that Tony has dealt with here. Stars dying in perfect health, idiots flying banners, so many seasons of duct tape and chicken wire to pull out a winning season. Sorry, LaRussa gets my vote.jim wrote:LaRussa is a Cardinal, plain and simple. I expect him to go into the HOF wearing a Cardinal hat. I'm taking nothing away from LaRussa when I say he isn't Red.
My point is these numbers don't mean anything. Red is Red, Tony is Tony, Hank is Hank, and Barry is Barry. Do you really need a number to tell you how to order them? You know it's Red first and then Tony, and you know Hank is before Barry. No numbers necessary.
TLR passing Red
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Re: TLR passing Red
Re: TLR passing Red
Red VS Tony as Cardinals manager, thats a tough one, it could go either way.
Red VS Tony as a Cardinal???
At this point, it's Red hands down, I love Tony, but there are a lot of reasons Red has a statue. If Tony is pulling on his Cards uniform for home games at the age of 84, then we have a different argument
Red VS Tony as a Cardinal???
At this point, it's Red hands down, I love Tony, but there are a lot of reasons Red has a statue. If Tony is pulling on his Cards uniform for home games at the age of 84, then we have a different argument
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Re: TLR passing Red
That's what I am talking about. Red had a HOF playing career as a Cardinal to go with his managing.AJ wrote:Red VS Tony as Cardinals manager, thats a tough one, it could go either way.
Red VS Tony as a Cardinal???
At this point, it's Red hands down, I love Tony, but there are a lot of reasons Red has a statue. If Tony is pulling on his Cards uniform for home games at the age of 84, then we have a different argument
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Re: TLR passing Red
Red has the advantage of also being a longtime Cards player in addition to a manager. The only person in the world who has a chance to top Red "as a Cardinal" is Albert Pujols. Albert would have to finish as a HOF player, playing almost exclusively with the Cards, and then go on to be one of the winningest managers ever to top Red "as a Cardinal".Red VS Tony as a Cardinal???
At this point, it's Red hands down, I love Tony, but there are a lot of reasons Red has a statue.
Musial doesn't even top Red as far as service to the Cardinals.
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Re: TLR passing Red
Ah - I wasn't grasping the subtlety of the argument. Yes, if we are talking "Cardinal" and not "Cardinal manager", I'll agree with Red above Tony. In fact, I'd probably put Jack Buck and Stan Musial above Tony and you might convince me of Mike Shannon, Dizzy Dean, Bob Gibson and Lou Brock too. I'll agree with what you say about Albert too.Fat Strat wrote:Red has the advantage of also being a longtime Cards player in addition to a manager. The only person in the world who has a chance to top Red "as a Cardinal" is Albert Pujols. Albert would have to finish as a HOF player, playing almost exclusively with the Cards, and then go on to be one of the winningest managers ever to top Red "as a Cardinal".Red VS Tony as a Cardinal???
At this point, it's Red hands down, I love Tony, but there are a lot of reasons Red has a statue.
Musial doesn't even top Red as far as service to the Cardinals.
Is it game time yet?