September call-ups

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Socnorb11
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Re: September call-ups

Post by Socnorb11 »

mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
haltz wrote:Do you think it's reasonable to say that based on his talent, the Cardinals would be a better team with him and that he might get something out of being with the club for a month instead of not playing? You don't have to agree, but that's the argument. No one here is saying that it's because of a BA ranking or that he didn't have a rough season.
Well put. Rust or no rust, 100% or 65%, he should be a part of the MLB club when the rosters expand. He can ride the bench the entire time if he's not deemed "ready" or whatever. Get him in the dugout, chatting it up with other guys about hitting, defense, etc. IMO the experience will be invaluable.

Treat him like a Prima Donna? How about the other prospects......... Jones, Jay, Wallace, Anderson, Craig, Freese......... where do you stop? Should they all be in the dugout? Wouldn't they all benefit from hanging out with big-leaguers?
No, treat him like a guy who was all but guaranteed a call up before an injury sidelined him for a month.

Really? With a .742 OPS, you think he was guaranteed a call-up before Jay (.906), Stavinoha (.884), Freese (.917), Phelps (.941), Mather (1.041), Anderson (.744), Barden (.781), Rico Washington (.837), etc.?

How many players do you want in the dugout, anyway?

Socnorb11
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Re: September call-ups

Post by Socnorb11 »

The Third Man wrote:
Jmodene wrote:Exactly. Why is this an issue for Rasmus and not for, say, Bryan Anderson or Jay or one of the other hot prospects?
Because Rasmus is (a) likely to be a bigger part of the team's future and (b) has a more obvious short- and long-term advantage to the team, in addition to (c) being more talented and skilled than any of our other prospects.

So he IS a Prima Donna?

Seriously, the kid has only been so-so at AAA, hasn't played in almost a month, has reportedly shown some immaturity at times as recently as this year, and probably isn't going to make on iota of difference in the playoff race.

Let him play this fall/winter at full health, come into spring strong, and compete for a starting job in 2009. He had all spring to sit in the dugout with the big-leaguers and talk baseball....... he'll have all of next spring to do the same thing. It's not fair (to him or anyone else) to treat him differently than other prospects, just because Baseball America says he might be better than some of the others.

Magneto2.0
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Re: September call-ups

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
haltz wrote:Do you think it's reasonable to say that based on his talent, the Cardinals would be a better team with him and that he might get something out of being with the club for a month instead of not playing? You don't have to agree, but that's the argument. No one here is saying that it's because of a BA ranking or that he didn't have a rough season.
Well put. Rust or no rust, 100% or 65%, he should be a part of the MLB club when the rosters expand. He can ride the bench the entire time if he's not deemed "ready" or whatever. Get him in the dugout, chatting it up with other guys about hitting, defense, etc. IMO the experience will be invaluable.

Treat him like a Prima Donna? How about the other prospects......... Jones, Jay, Wallace, Anderson, Craig, Freese......... where do you stop? Should they all be in the dugout? Wouldn't they all benefit from hanging out with big-leaguers?
No, treat him like a guy who was all but guaranteed a call up before an injury sidelined him for a month.

Really? With a .742 OPS, you think he was guaranteed a call-up before Jay (.906), Stavinoha (.884), Freese (.917), Phelps (.941), Mather (1.041), Anderson (.744), Barden (.781), Rico Washington (.837), etc.?

How many players do you want in the dugout, anyway?
Come on, comparing Freese, Stavinho, Jay, Phelps, Washington, Mather, to Rasmus is absurd.

Rasmus is a top 10 prospect, and is 21 years of age.

The other guys are in the mid to late 20s, who have proven they don't belong in the big show, or if they do, they are nothing more then role players.

Rasmus is far more talented then all the guys you listed, and is a big part of the future. The majority of the others you listed are nothing more then Triple A spot fillers, with sporadic call ups.

Magneto2.0
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Re: September call-ups

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Socnorb11 wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:So, keep a superior player in the minors, because, what? It's not a guarantee he will help us to the wild card, but he brings far more to the table then anyone else on the Cardinals bench.

And he is a much better power hitter then Wallace, and walks more. So if Walrus is ready, Rasmus has BEEN ready.

There's not much evidence that he's a superior player right now.

What happened to the good old days when players actually had to perform in ordrer to earn a promotion, rather than just have Baseball America project them as terrific Major League players?
This has never, EVER, been the be all end all to getting promoted to the big league club.

If performance should be the be all, end all of promotion, then why was Rasmus sent down after his tremendous spring training with the major league club? If it's STRICTLY about performance as you want it to be?

I guess because Schumaker, Ankiel, Barton and Ludwick performed as well or better, and the sample size was pretty meaningless.

Do you really think that Rasmus has earned a promotion to the Major Leagues, based on the season he had at Memphis? Or do you think he deserves a promotion because Baseball America thinks he'll be really good someday?
Based off Spring Training he should've started on the major league team this season. His OPS was higher then EVERYONE but Pujols. Rasmus OPS was well 100 points higher then Ludwick, about 100 points higher then Ankiel, 40 points higher then Barton, and 30 points higher than Schumaker.

Funny how those first 30+ stats are meaningless, I guess you can pick and choose which stats you want to use, but the Rasmus supporters can not. Good to know.

And after his slow start, he has hit excellent in Triple A. So yes, based off performance he should be on the big league club.
I'll take your word for it as far as spring stats. According to ESPN stats, Ankiel, Barton, and Schumaker all had a higher batting average and higher SLG than Rasmus. They don't list OBP, though. So based on spring training performance, Ludwick and Molina wouldn't have made the team but Rasmus would have. And you think that would have made the team better? I don't want to pick and choose which stats I use. I think sample size is pretty well recognized on this forum.

And why do you want to recognize his quick start in spring training, but dismiss his slow start at Memphis?
I think Rasmus could've outperformed Ankiel or Schumaker, definitely. And my point was if you choose to base everything off performance, then he should've made the team initially. For whatever reason, you you don't like Rasmus, so you don't think he should have. Whatever. His OBP was over .460. (Stats are available at MLB official Cardinals website).

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haltz
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Re: September call-ups

Post by haltz »

Socnorb11 wrote:just because Baseball America says he might be better than some of the others.
The Cardinals think he will be too. And they'll treat him accordingly. That's just a reality of baseball.

Socnorb11
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Re: September call-ups

Post by Socnorb11 »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
I think Rasmus could've outperformed Ankiel or Schumaker, definitely. And my point was if you choose to base everything off performance, then he should've made the team initially. For whatever reason, you you don't like Rasmus, so you don't think he should have. Whatever. His OBP was over .460. (Stats are available at MLB official Cardinals website).
I don't like or dislike Rasmus. Don't know the kid. I do think he's going to be a superstar. I'm not denying that. The question is about whether he could help the team in a playoff run (highly doubtful) or if he's earned a call-up (he hasn't based on performance).

Are you suggesting that he should be called up simply because he's going to be a superstar?

Socnorb11
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Re: September call-ups

Post by Socnorb11 »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
haltz wrote:Do you think it's reasonable to say that based on his talent, the Cardinals would be a better team with him and that he might get something out of being with the club for a month instead of not playing? You don't have to agree, but that's the argument. No one here is saying that it's because of a BA ranking or that he didn't have a rough season.
Well put. Rust or no rust, 100% or 65%, he should be a part of the MLB club when the rosters expand. He can ride the bench the entire time if he's not deemed "ready" or whatever. Get him in the dugout, chatting it up with other guys about hitting, defense, etc. IMO the experience will be invaluable.

Treat him like a Prima Donna? How about the other prospects......... Jones, Jay, Wallace, Anderson, Craig, Freese......... where do you stop? Should they all be in the dugout? Wouldn't they all benefit from hanging out with big-leaguers?
No, treat him like a guy who was all but guaranteed a call up before an injury sidelined him for a month.

Really? With a .742 OPS, you think he was guaranteed a call-up before Jay (.906), Stavinoha (.884), Freese (.917), Phelps (.941), Mather (1.041), Anderson (.744), Barden (.781), Rico Washington (.837), etc.?

How many players do you want in the dugout, anyway?
Come on, comparing Freese, Stavinho, Jay, Phelps, Washington, Mather, to Rasmus is absurd.

Rasmus is a top 10 prospect, and is 21 years of age.

The other guys are in the mid to late 20s, who have proven they don't belong in the big show, or if they do, they are nothing more then role players.

Rasmus is far more talented then all the guys you listed, and is a big part of the future. The majority of the others you listed are nothing more then Triple A spot fillers, with sporadic call ups.

Well, if you guys think he was guaranteed a call-up before the injury (with a .742 OPS), then why the Larussa conspiracy theories? If Larussa was going to give him an opportunity after he played pretty mediocre baseball at Memphis, then I guess Larussa likes him more than some of you believe.

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mcgee51taguchi99
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Re: September call-ups

Post by mcgee51taguchi99 »

Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
mcgee51taguchi99 wrote:
haltz wrote:Do you think it's reasonable to say that based on his talent, the Cardinals would be a better team with him and that he might get something out of being with the club for a month instead of not playing? You don't have to agree, but that's the argument. No one here is saying that it's because of a BA ranking or that he didn't have a rough season.
Well put. Rust or no rust, 100% or 65%, he should be a part of the MLB club when the rosters expand. He can ride the bench the entire time if he's not deemed "ready" or whatever. Get him in the dugout, chatting it up with other guys about hitting, defense, etc. IMO the experience will be invaluable.

Treat him like a Prima Donna? How about the other prospects......... Jones, Jay, Wallace, Anderson, Craig, Freese......... where do you stop? Should they all be in the dugout? Wouldn't they all benefit from hanging out with big-leaguers?
No, treat him like a guy who was all but guaranteed a call up before an injury sidelined him for a month.

Really? With a .742 OPS, you think he was guaranteed a call-up before Jay (.906), Stavinoha (.884), Freese (.917), Phelps (.941), Mather (1.041), Anderson (.744), Barden (.781), Rico Washington (.837), etc.?

How many players do you want in the dugout, anyway?
1) Short - I believe Rasmus was a guaranteed call up before the injury, yes. Long - We both know the Cards aren't going to make a decision based on a single statistical measure, so why throw that out there? First of all, it's not one player who will be called up, so ranking them as if that's the case isn't very useful in this discussion, but I'll play along a little . . . Stavi and Mather are already on the big club, so they are out of the discussion. Anderson is probably blocked by Molina and LaRue and at the moment. And honestly, who gives a F that Rico Washington OPSd better than Rasmus? Rasmus is the top prospect in the Cards' system (I assume we can all agree there) and arguably very close to being ML-ready. He could have a very bright future with the club and I'd like him to get some ML experience, in whatever capacity that might entail, rather than sitting at home doing nothing. There are a lot of decisions that need to be made with OF personnel this winter, so IMO the more the Cards know about Rasmus before the season is over the better.

2) Once Sept hits, 40.

On a side note, this whole thing about players not being treated equally is BS. News flash: not everyone is allowed to swing at a 3-0 pitch. I'm sure the ACLU is looking into this as we speak.

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Re: September call-ups

Post by tenniseleven »

luckily for Rasmus, who is probably one of the youngest players in AAA, he was able to see the type of pitching in AAA (mostly AAAA guys, some who have seen the majors) and adjust to it monstrously...

who knows what his numbers would be like right now if he hadn't pulled the injury just as his fire was being lit...

not really knowing what was going on I'm going to chalk Rasmus's slow start up to learning a new league and being let down in ST after doing everything he possibly could to make the team


I can see the other side of this argument, but I can also see treating your first round pick, a guy with perennial all-star talent, a little differently than some other guys...a lot of teams do this...Cameron Maybin was brought up last year before he even played AAA (heck, he only had a few games at AA)...Alex Gordon never played AAA...
why, because these guys were super talents, a different species than your average prospect, just like Rasmus...

It's not just BA saying this kid has the skills, it's pretty much everyone...

also, as has been mentioned, the jump from low-A to AA probably tells more about how successful a guy will be than his jump from AA to AAA...


I think Rasmus earned his treatment by being given lots of baseball gifts by the gods and by proving, as a 20 y/o, that AA wasn't much of a competition...

Again, though, I can also see the other side of the argument...maybe Rasmus did dog it a little bit after not making the team and maybe guys inside the organization know this better than we...and maybe this is just Tony teaching a kid a lesson, just like he tried to do with the fun-lovin' Ryan...


I just wish Tony would have said something along the lines of not wanting to push Rasmus coming off of injury...Tony, as much as I like the guy, can just rub me the wrong way sometimes with how he treats SOME of his youngsters...
then again, not all of us have people in our faces asking us questions all the time and needing to give a quick answer, and none of us know the basis of the question asked....still, it's hard for me to give TLR the benefit of the doubt considering some of the things that have been said about other young guys like Reyes, Haren and even Ryan to a lesser extent (b/c Ryan was never the prospect that Reyes, Haren and Rasmus were/are)

this is really my main beef, not necessarily whether or not Rasmus should be brought up or not...

as long as he gets more than his fair chance to make the team out of ST next year, and as long as he gets to swing a bat somewhere in the fall (and not just sit on his but after a couple of GCL games) then everything should be fine...

I just hope the organization doesn't rub Rasmus, one of the best position TALENTS this team has had in 20+ years the wrong way....
if they plan on doing that then they just need to trade him in the offseason while he still has a lot of value being a top 3-10 prospect in all of baseball by everyone's standards...

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haltz
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Re: September call-ups

Post by haltz »

LOL Brendan Ryan is in CF tonight for Memphis.

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