Post Game Thread 6/23

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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JL21 wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:So far he's given us what, Rasmus?
See my sig.
Good point.

So what exactly is the basis for Lunhow being the golden child?

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JL21
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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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InvincibleCakeEater
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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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2 years 13 mil IMO

greenback44
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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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Popeye_Card wrote:So far he's given us what, Rasmus? Wallace is about the only other high-ceiling guy in the pipeline. The old system under Jocketty may not have been much, but it at least gave us (and others) Drew, Ankiel, Kennedy, Polanco, Haren, Pujols, Molina, etc. At least solid major leaguers.
Polanco wasn't a Jocketty draft. I'd classify Drew and Ankiel as DeWitt picks, and Pujols is so far out there that I've yet to see a good way to attribute success or failure on his drafting. Well, there's the whole Taleb-Black Swan thing, but that's not particularly satisfactory either.

Luhnow's narrative about Rasmus is different from the one recently published in the PD. Something about wanting Jay Bruce, but he was already gone, so they tried to get a clone. OTOH whenever Luhnow says something to the media or bloggers, I tend to think of what Baghdad Bob would've been doing if he had grown up in the US (and maybe Mexico too), played fantasy baseball, earned an Ivy League MBA and gone to work at McKinsey.

Kozma is a better prospect than Wallace. Nobody's convincing me otherwise yet, nor will I bother trying to convincing anyone beyond "defense matters."

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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greenback44 wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:So far he's given us what, Rasmus? Wallace is about the only other high-ceiling guy in the pipeline. The old system under Jocketty may not have been much, but it at least gave us (and others) Drew, Ankiel, Kennedy, Polanco, Haren, Pujols, Molina, etc. At least solid major leaguers.
Polanco wasn't a Jocketty draft. I'd classify Drew and Ankiel as DeWitt picks, and Pujols is so far out there that I've yet to see a good way to attribute success or failure on his drafting. Well, there's the whole Taleb-Black Swan thing, but that's not particularly satisfactory either.

Luhnow's narrative about Rasmus is different from the one recently published in the PD. Something about wanting Jay Bruce, but he was already gone, so they tried to get a clone. OTOH whenever Luhnow says something to the media or bloggers, I tend to think of what Baghdad Bob would've been doing if he had grown up in the US (and maybe Mexico too), played fantasy baseball, earned an Ivy League MBA and gone to work at McKinsey.

Kozma is a better prospect than Wallace. Nobody's convincing me otherwise yet, nor will I bother trying to convincing anyone beyond "defense matters."
Forgot that Polanco was before Jocketty. As for Ankiel and Drew, they were the Porcello's of their day, and we've gone away from drafting those types. Whether that's by ownership preference or Lunhow, regardless we're not getting these guys.

Regardless of who was doing the picking or who got lucky, there have been solid players come from the Jocketty years, even if they've been few and far between. Lunhow so far hasn't really lived up to his billing. Maybe some good players will come from these years, but right now it looks like a lot more AAAA guys than MLB regulars.

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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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Even good drafting teams have trouble developing high-end talent. They're very rare and a total crapshoot (see Pujols, Albert). I do agree that the current management in place needs to do a better job evaluating talent if their going to rely on the draft to fill the bulk of the teams needs, but I think expecting tons of solid above-replacement level talent from any team over a short period of time, ie 5 years, is going to be hard to come by.

For example the blues, the team has gotten some good contributors and is really a model for solid drafting, is still lacking the #1 100-point type of offensive player, a couple offensive-defensemen, and had to go to the waiver wire last season for offensive help over calling up players from the farm. They also only have 1 goalie in their entire depth chart. So even the teams that are "spoiling" us with solid drafting and are examples of how to draft well have giant holes in their depth chart due to draft failures.

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Re: Post Game Thread 6/23

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TheoSqua wrote:Even good drafting teams have trouble developing high-end talent. They're very rare and a total crapshoot (see Pujols, Albert). I do agree that the current management in place needs to do a better job evaluating talent if their going to rely on the draft to fill the bulk of the teams needs, but I think expecting tons of solid above-replacement level talent from any team over a short period of time, ie 5 years, is going to be hard to come by.

For example the blues, the team has gotten some good contributors and is really a model for solid drafting, is still lacking the #1 100-point type of offensive player, a couple offensive-defensemen, and had to go to the waiver wire last season for offensive help over calling up players from the farm. They also only have 1 goalie in their entire depth chart. So even the teams that are "spoiling" us with solid drafting and are examples of how to draft well have giant holes in their depth chart due to draft failures.
Good points, but I wasn't expecting to fill out an entire roster or even find one superstar. We are still struggling to develop top 50 prospects. If that is the supposed focus of the team and we still can't do it, then the guy in charge of that program probably shouldn't be viewed as anything special. Lunhow has been highly praised by ownership. He's already driven out an excellent GM. A HoF manager may be next. That's ok if he's doing a great job, but is he?

The Blues aren't perfect, and yes the road between draft and the big league is shorter in hockey than baseball. But they've collected multiple top 6 forwards, and two of the best young defensemen in the game in a short time. Even have some quality depth guys to boot. That's pretty impressive. Impressive enough to be named Top Organization two years running. The Cardinals have a long way to go to reach the top of the BA list.

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