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redbirdjazzz
PostPosted: May 5 12, 3:20 pm 
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Vidor wrote:
cpebbles wrote:
Vidor wrote:
cpebbles wrote:
Vidor wrote:
Well, again, Ryan was not traded for Theriot. Getting the horrible Brendan Ryan out of our lineup was a good thing. It was the task of replacing him that they failed at.

You're right. He was traded for a sub-replacement level reliever who he outperformed by 2.8 wins last year.


And his .538 OPS is currently absent from the St. Louis Cardinals lineup. Thank goodness.

I don't know why this is so hard for certain people to accept


Likely because it isn't true. If you hit that badly you have no place in the starting lineup of a big-league baseball team.

I kind of feel bad for the Mariners, having to watch that guy play every day. But in any case, my point was not to defend any sequence of events and certainly not to defend Ryan Theriot as a baseball player, but merely to cite Brendan Ryan as one of the many players we've traded away that we haven't mised.

If you don't think we missed him last year, then you weren't really paying attention.
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Cole Burns
PostPosted: May 5 12, 3:20 pm 
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Joeybombs all up in here, and I still don't see the fascination with Brendan Ryan on this board. Is it his sterling Robert De Niro impression or that time he threw a ball between his legs?

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Fat Strat wrote:
Yeah, but how long is the list of guys who have lit up low A, have a good face, and a last name of Wong that never amounted to much? Here's a hint: It's not very long.

#scouting
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Socnorb11
PostPosted: May 5 12, 3:22 pm 
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Felix The Cat wrote:
I don't think people dispute the existence of clubhouse chemistry, just the degree of importance it has. Was it enough of a factor to outweigh the very clear drop in talent defensively between Ryan and Theriot?



Yeah, I get that clubhouse chemistry a little fuzzy. Defensive metrics are pretty fuzzy, also.
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Vidor
PostPosted: May 5 12, 3:22 pm 
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Cole Burns wrote:
Joeybombs all up in here, and I still don't see the fascination with Brendan Ryan on this board. Is it his sterling Robert De Niro impression or that time he threw a ball between his legs?


Maybe that time he looked like a Little Leaguer striking out.

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"This is a heavyweight bout indeed."--John Rooney, Oct. 27, 2011
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Felix The Cat
PostPosted: May 5 12, 3:31 pm 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
Felix The Cat wrote:
I don't think people dispute the existence of clubhouse chemistry, just the degree of importance it has. Was it enough of a factor to outweigh the very clear drop in talent defensively between Ryan and Theriot?



Yeah, I get that clubhouse chemistry a little fuzzy. Defensive metrics are pretty fuzzy, also.

Scrap the defensive metrics then. What does the "eye test" say about the two players defensively?

The less fuzzy offensive metrics say they were roughly equal with the bat last year. Both have been really awful this season with the bat. The only potential edge Theriot has in this discussion is his personality.

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cpebbles
PostPosted: May 5 12, 4:28 pm 
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Vidor wrote:
cpebbles wrote:
I don't know why this is so hard for certain people to accept


Likely because it isn't true.

I'm quite amused that you think of yourself as any kind of authority on the value of ballplayers, much less one with final say on this subject.

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Socnorb11
PostPosted: May 5 12, 4:43 pm 
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I think the fact that the biggest beef we've got with Mo is that he traded away Brendan Ryan might tell us something.
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Vidor
PostPosted: May 5 12, 4:54 pm 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
I think the fact that the biggest beef we've got with Mo is that he traded away Brendan Ryan might tell us something.


Indeed. It's a pity how that business with Jocketty played out but Mo has done well.

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pioneer98
PostPosted: May 5 12, 5:09 pm 
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Well, was it "clubhouse chemistry"...or was it that a few guys basically hated each other and had irreconcilable differences?

I have no clue what happened. At a minimum you have to have guys that are willing to work together though. If they can't, then move somebody because it won't matter one iota how talented they all are.

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3
PostPosted: May 5 12, 5:15 pm 
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Vidor wrote:
Cole Burns wrote:
Joeybombs all up in here, and I still don't see the fascination with Brendan Ryan on this board. Is it his sterling Robert De Niro impression or that time he threw a ball between his legs?


Maybe that time he looked like a Little Leaguer striking out.


Please pick one:

Player A
$4M
84 OPS+
Bottom 20% of SS at just about any fielding stat you can find
0.7 WAR

Player B
$450K
83 OPS+
Top 20% of SS at just about any fielding stat you can find
2.6 WAR

It's not that there's a fascination, it's that moz chose plaer A and it's really mind boggling on paper. I am happy with Furcal. But...it's not like having B Ryan instead of Theriot would have prohibitted that pick up....

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trill wrote:
Yeah, cuz you and Jenny just didn't have it. Me and Jenny. We got it. I can unlock her defense with a well-timed through ball and a towering header.
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