Well hell, if you're going to be all reasonable about it...Cheddar Tom wrote:That's being awfully black and white about it....nobody would argue that he hasn't messed up. Can't we acknowledge that he's a really really good GM who occassionally misses like the other 29 GM's?
Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other bros
-
- You've just been hit by...VidorSmarm™
- Posts: 22965
- Joined: June 10 10, 7:50 pm
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
- 33anda3rd
- Replies Authoritatively
- Posts: 8418
- Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
If we're being reasonable about it, the goal for Beane is to make money for ownership via a number of elements of his job, the same as any of us have to be productive and improve our employers'/our own financial situation. He fields mostly winning teams (12 of 18 seasons) and he keeps his owners profitable by going cheap when they have those losing seasons.
Forbes pegs Oakland at being worth $495MM. They were purchased for $180MM in 2005. They're a low-total-value team comped to the rest of the league, but they've had similar growth in value to Tampa, another small market team sold in the 00s who plays in a crappy stadium/location and at the bottom of the value spectrum but very high on the growth spectrum due to recent winning baseball. Their value growth has been good for a team who has not had the pleasure of fleecing taxpayers for a new stadium in the last 50 years--a lot of teams like MIN have experienced value growth due to new stadiums that pad the value of the club. Beane's not without his faults or mistakes, but he does a good enough job both in what he puts on the field and how he manages the business that it's tough to deny he's up there with the very best of the GMs in the game.
Forbes pegs Oakland at being worth $495MM. They were purchased for $180MM in 2005. They're a low-total-value team comped to the rest of the league, but they've had similar growth in value to Tampa, another small market team sold in the 00s who plays in a crappy stadium/location and at the bottom of the value spectrum but very high on the growth spectrum due to recent winning baseball. Their value growth has been good for a team who has not had the pleasure of fleecing taxpayers for a new stadium in the last 50 years--a lot of teams like MIN have experienced value growth due to new stadiums that pad the value of the club. Beane's not without his faults or mistakes, but he does a good enough job both in what he puts on the field and how he manages the business that it's tough to deny he's up there with the very best of the GMs in the game.
- 33anda3rd
- Replies Authoritatively
- Posts: 8418
- Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
Hidden, too, in the Donaldson-Lawrie stuff, is Barreto. He was the top J2 Bonus Baby two years ago and hasn't done anything to tarnish that in a short season and a full low-A season. I'd assume we will see him on most top 100 lists this year, and that if he has a high-A year like he did low-A last year that we'll see him in a lot of people's top 20-30 prospects entering 2016.
- KyCardinalFan
- Perennial All-Star
- Posts: 5522
- Joined: May 31 06, 3:16 pm
- Location: Western Kentucky
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
Well done on the thread title.
- Jocephus
- 99% conan clips
- Posts: 63655
- Joined: April 18 06, 5:14 pm
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
ha i was gonna say the sameKyCardinalFan wrote:Well done on the thread title.
- pioneer98
- Hall Of Famer
- Posts: 22249
- Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
- Location: High A Minors
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
I don't know if this was a great trade or not but the A's are in a position where they always have to sell high. So I understand why they made this trade. It could work out OK in the long run but yeah, it probably makes them worse in the short run.
- Fan_In_NY
- Perennial All-Star
- Posts: 5184
- Joined: April 18 06, 7:22 pm
- Location: Birthplace of Baseball- Hoboken, NJ
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
Then really is there ever an instance that you can criticize a GM for not getting top value? This reasoning basically assumes that a player is being publicly shipped to all teams and auctioned to the "highest" bidder. So Shelby Miller is as good as you could get for Jason Heyward, Freese and Salas is as good as you could get for Bourjos and Grichuk. Victor Zambrano is as good as you could get for Scott Kazmir, etc. Every GM must be getting the ultimate, maximum value then what was attainable.33anda3rd wrote:
Ask yourself this. If Donaldson is so awesome, why was this the return? A guy who is 2nd in WAR the last 2 years combined, who is under control through 2018, was on the market, and this was the return. If you said "How many teams don't want the guy who was 2nd best in baseball the last two years at just an arb salary for four years?" the answer would be zero*. Any team could take him and put him at 3B, 1B, a corner OF spot, DH. For little money. And there was not a better offer than this. They got the player likely to be better the next four years. Good move.
10 Million a year for 3 years on the short side of a DH platoon is money well spent?? Especially when money is at a premium in Oakland, I see that as a really tough move to defend. He provides zero defensive and baserunning value. Typically a right handed hitting platoon hitter would see 200-250 at bats in a season. So thats why have committed $10 M for 3 years to. Who were they bidding against for his services. Already 20 teams have zero interest in Butler because he is solely a DH, all the NL Teams, the Red Sox (Ortiz), Yanks (Need that spot for A-Rod and other old players), Tigers (V-Mart), and teams with monetary constraints like the Rays and Astros.33anda3rd wrote: They added Billy Butler for cheap to platoon at DH. Good move.
That said I don't think the trade is unreasonable from the A's point of view. I think they traded Donaldson at maximum value. He is only going to be costing more $$, getting older, and regressing as time goes on. That said there are some mixed signal coming from Oakland and no one can tell if they are playing for this window, the next window, or have one toe in each.
- JoeMcKim
- Perennial All-Star
- Posts: 9077
- Joined: September 8 09, 10:56 pm
- Location: South County, St. Louis
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
When you're an A's fan it's hard to get attached to any of the players since theres a good chance that they won't still be with the team once they get towards their cost controlled years.
- lukethedrifter
- darjeeling sipping elite
- Posts: 37434
- Joined: October 17 06, 11:19 am
- Location: Huis Clos
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
re faninny's (now i see why he underscored) comment, I was thinking the same thing. It's like someone who just took econ 101 and didn't really fully understand.
- BW23
- Hall Of Famer
- Posts: 13026
- Joined: July 7 06, 11:08 pm
Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br
If we're going to be reasonable and judge GMs on how they make money for their owners, then every one of us do it incorrectly. We all judge it on baseball moves. I'll continue to do that.
And I'll say it again. Beane's moves this winter are bad. I understand he's not done, and maybe he'll have a decent team by the time April rolls around, but I doubt it.
Beane's gotten credit for winning in the regular season while having to work with payroll constraints. And that's very commendable. I also understand the crapshoot theory of the playoffs, but still...his teams have won 1 playoff series. Ever. Despite choking this past season, they'd had a nice 3-year run. I guess that's good enough. The five seasons prior to that were pathetic.
Look, I can understand trading Donaldson. I don't agree with it, but I understand the reason. It did nothing, however, to improve the team for next year. They were tweaks away from being the best team in that division, and they've already thrown their hands up. And I think that they could have gotten a lot more than they did for both present help and future help.
Still, going back to my statement about the worst GM of the offseason so far, I really don't think it's close.
I hate the Donaldson trade for them.
I think the Butler signing is terrible. They went more years and more money than anyone else would have for a DH-only player that probably won't hit 10 homers next year. And, as already mentioned in this thread, he's a possible platoon partner? $10 million/year for a guy who might take 30% of the ABs at the DH spot? Terrible.
I expect a few more moves soon. Gotta make room for Ike Davis. Yep. Ike Davis.
And I'll say it again. Beane's moves this winter are bad. I understand he's not done, and maybe he'll have a decent team by the time April rolls around, but I doubt it.
Beane's gotten credit for winning in the regular season while having to work with payroll constraints. And that's very commendable. I also understand the crapshoot theory of the playoffs, but still...his teams have won 1 playoff series. Ever. Despite choking this past season, they'd had a nice 3-year run. I guess that's good enough. The five seasons prior to that were pathetic.
Look, I can understand trading Donaldson. I don't agree with it, but I understand the reason. It did nothing, however, to improve the team for next year. They were tweaks away from being the best team in that division, and they've already thrown their hands up. And I think that they could have gotten a lot more than they did for both present help and future help.
Still, going back to my statement about the worst GM of the offseason so far, I really don't think it's close.
I hate the Donaldson trade for them.
I think the Butler signing is terrible. They went more years and more money than anyone else would have for a DH-only player that probably won't hit 10 homers next year. And, as already mentioned in this thread, he's a possible platoon partner? $10 million/year for a guy who might take 30% of the ABs at the DH spot? Terrible.
I expect a few more moves soon. Gotta make room for Ike Davis. Yep. Ike Davis.