Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other bros

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Vidor
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by Vidor »

Cheddar Tom wrote:That's being awfully black and white about it....nobody would argue that he hasn't messed up. Can't we acknowledge that he's a really really good GM who occassionally misses like the other 29 GM's?
Well hell, if you're going to be all reasonable about it...

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33anda3rd
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by 33anda3rd »

If we're being reasonable about it, the goal for Beane is to make money for ownership via a number of elements of his job, the same as any of us have to be productive and improve our employers'/our own financial situation. He fields mostly winning teams (12 of 18 seasons) and he keeps his owners profitable by going cheap when they have those losing seasons.

Forbes pegs Oakland at being worth $495MM. They were purchased for $180MM in 2005. They're a low-total-value team comped to the rest of the league, but they've had similar growth in value to Tampa, another small market team sold in the 00s who plays in a crappy stadium/location and at the bottom of the value spectrum but very high on the growth spectrum due to recent winning baseball. Their value growth has been good for a team who has not had the pleasure of fleecing taxpayers for a new stadium in the last 50 years--a lot of teams like MIN have experienced value growth due to new stadiums that pad the value of the club. Beane's not without his faults or mistakes, but he does a good enough job both in what he puts on the field and how he manages the business that it's tough to deny he's up there with the very best of the GMs in the game.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by 33anda3rd »

Hidden, too, in the Donaldson-Lawrie stuff, is Barreto. He was the top J2 Bonus Baby two years ago and hasn't done anything to tarnish that in a short season and a full low-A season. I'd assume we will see him on most top 100 lists this year, and that if he has a high-A year like he did low-A last year that we'll see him in a lot of people's top 20-30 prospects entering 2016.

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KyCardinalFan
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by KyCardinalFan »

Well done on the thread title.

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Jocephus
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by Jocephus »

KyCardinalFan wrote:Well done on the thread title.
ha i was gonna say the same

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pioneer98
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by pioneer98 »

I don't know if this was a great trade or not but the A's are in a position where they always have to sell high. So I understand why they made this trade. It could work out OK in the long run but yeah, it probably makes them worse in the short run.

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Fan_In_NY
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by Fan_In_NY »

33anda3rd wrote:
Ask yourself this. If Donaldson is so awesome, why was this the return? A guy who is 2nd in WAR the last 2 years combined, who is under control through 2018, was on the market, and this was the return. If you said "How many teams don't want the guy who was 2nd best in baseball the last two years at just an arb salary for four years?" the answer would be zero*. Any team could take him and put him at 3B, 1B, a corner OF spot, DH. For little money. And there was not a better offer than this. They got the player likely to be better the next four years. Good move.
Then really is there ever an instance that you can criticize a GM for not getting top value? This reasoning basically assumes that a player is being publicly shipped to all teams and auctioned to the "highest" bidder. So Shelby Miller is as good as you could get for Jason Heyward, Freese and Salas is as good as you could get for Bourjos and Grichuk. Victor Zambrano is as good as you could get for Scott Kazmir, etc. Every GM must be getting the ultimate, maximum value then what was attainable.
33anda3rd wrote: They added Billy Butler for cheap to platoon at DH. Good move.
10 Million a year for 3 years on the short side of a DH platoon is money well spent?? Especially when money is at a premium in Oakland, I see that as a really tough move to defend. He provides zero defensive and baserunning value. Typically a right handed hitting platoon hitter would see 200-250 at bats in a season. So thats why have committed $10 M for 3 years to. Who were they bidding against for his services. Already 20 teams have zero interest in Butler because he is solely a DH, all the NL Teams, the Red Sox (Ortiz), Yanks (Need that spot for A-Rod and other old players), Tigers (V-Mart), and teams with monetary constraints like the Rays and Astros.


That said I don't think the trade is unreasonable from the A's point of view. I think they traded Donaldson at maximum value. He is only going to be costing more $$, getting older, and regressing as time goes on. That said there are some mixed signal coming from Oakland and no one can tell if they are playing for this window, the next window, or have one toe in each.

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JoeMcKim
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by JoeMcKim »

When you're an A's fan it's hard to get attached to any of the players since theres a good chance that they won't still be with the team once they get towards their cost controlled years.

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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by lukethedrifter »

re faninny's (now i see why he underscored) comment, I was thinking the same thing. It's like someone who just took econ 101 and didn't really fully understand.

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BW23
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Re: Josh Donaldson traded for Bro Lawrie plus three other br

Post by BW23 »

If we're going to be reasonable and judge GMs on how they make money for their owners, then every one of us do it incorrectly. We all judge it on baseball moves. I'll continue to do that.

And I'll say it again. Beane's moves this winter are bad. I understand he's not done, and maybe he'll have a decent team by the time April rolls around, but I doubt it.

Beane's gotten credit for winning in the regular season while having to work with payroll constraints. And that's very commendable. I also understand the crapshoot theory of the playoffs, but still...his teams have won 1 playoff series. Ever. Despite choking this past season, they'd had a nice 3-year run. I guess that's good enough. The five seasons prior to that were pathetic.

Look, I can understand trading Donaldson. I don't agree with it, but I understand the reason. It did nothing, however, to improve the team for next year. They were tweaks away from being the best team in that division, and they've already thrown their hands up. And I think that they could have gotten a lot more than they did for both present help and future help.

Still, going back to my statement about the worst GM of the offseason so far, I really don't think it's close.

I hate the Donaldson trade for them.

I think the Butler signing is terrible. They went more years and more money than anyone else would have for a DH-only player that probably won't hit 10 homers next year. And, as already mentioned in this thread, he's a possible platoon partner? $10 million/year for a guy who might take 30% of the ABs at the DH spot? Terrible.

I expect a few more moves soon. Gotta make room for Ike Davis. Yep. Ike Davis.

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