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PostPosted: August 7 19, 10:48 am 
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ideas change...particularly when you see the output. predictions can be wrong. i don't know why you get such a hard on for this stuff.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 10:49 am 
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Jocephus wrote:
ideas change...particularly when you see the output. predictions can be wrong. i don't know why you get such a hard on for this stuff.

Well he wanted .648 OPS Michael Morse to be Tavaras's replacement.

Glass house.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 10:52 am 
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Let's keep the conversation on issues and not other posters please.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 11:04 am 
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I never think these thread bumps are the "gottchas" the bumpers think they are. There's nothing wrong or unreasonable being "for" a signing then later criticizing the front office if the signing doesn't pan out. Ultimately we're just folks talking on the internet. On the other hand, it's the front office's job and they need to execute.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 11:07 am 
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dmarx114 wrote:
But I am sorry, you can't be in favor of a signing 3 years ago and then use that same signing as a reason the GM should be fired today.

1. That's not what is happening.
2. Why? Fat's not getting millions of dollars to make these decisions. Only the people that actually make the decisions and get paid to do so are accountable. I can say the pham trade was the best thing that's ever happened day 1 and then day 365 reverse course and call for peoples' heads on a spike.

That's my prerogative as a fan. In the end, all I care about is winning, and we're looking at a team that's not even in the 10-team playoffs if the season ended today despite having the 6th highest payroll in the league. That's pretty bad front-officing by any non-biased metric.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 11:30 am 
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Here’s my take. Every offseason we make a big deal about who we should be signing, and making the “who cares? He only costs money and we have plenty” arguments. Fowler was fine in a vacuum. Miller was fine in a vacuum. Marp extension was fine. Who cares—it is just money.

These moves aren’t the reason why the team lacks great assets. We aren’t getting the Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez, etc. types into our system. Guys we don’t have to tank for, but somehow we still aren’t drafting or otherwise securing. Maybe we had a couple in Taveras and Reyes that didn’t pan out for different reasons. But that’s the difference between the unexciting, consistently mediocre product we are trotting out there each year and a real contender.

Mo shouldn’t be fired for signing guys like Fowler. We should consider if he’s the right guy if he’s not hiring the right front office people under him.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 11:35 am 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:
But I am sorry, you can't be in favor of a signing 3 years ago and then use that same signing as a reason the GM should be fired today.

1. That's not what is happening.
2. Why? Fat's not getting millions of dollars to make these decisions. Only the people that actually make the decisions and get paid to do so are accountable. I can say the pham trade was the best thing that's ever happened day 1 and then day 365 reverse course and call for peoples' heads on a spike.

That's my prerogative as a fan. In the end, all I care about is winning, and we're looking at a team that's not even in the 10-team playoffs if the season ended today despite having the 6th highest payroll in the league. That's pretty bad front-officing by any non-biased metric.


To maintain credibility. I think most of us post with the idea of having a credible opinion on a given subject. And if someone is inconsistent, I think that hurts their credibility.

I realize we are in a hot take era, but I still think people should own all of their comments. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to applauding Mo for the Grichuk-Leone trade.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 11:42 am 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
Here’s my take. Every offseason we make a big deal about who we should be signing, and making the “who cares? He only costs money and we have plenty” arguments. Fowler was fine in a vacuum. Miller was fine in a vacuum. Marp extension was fine. Who cares—it is just money.

These moves aren’t the reason why the team lacks great assets. We aren’t getting the Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez, etc. types into our system. Guys we don’t have to tank for, but somehow we still aren’t drafting or otherwise securing. Maybe we had a couple in Taveras and Reyes that didn’t pan out for different reasons. But that’s the difference between the unexciting, consistently mediocre product we are trotting out there each year and a real contender.

Mo shouldn’t be fired for signing guys like Fowler. We should consider if he’s the right guy if he’s not hiring the right front office people under him.


And this is completely fair. Simply stated, we need to draft better! And that's on Mo, no doubt about it.

That said, I do think Mo has properly maintained the long term vision of the franchise, and we are in good hands with someone like that. But if Mo can't hire the right people to oversee the draft/farm system/scouting department, then that's certainly a weakness worth discussing.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 11:58 am 
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We need to draft better, trade better, and improve player performance. Those are all areas where MO is in charge. Perhaps our investment in Flores drafting, hiring the new mlb coaching staff, and the promise to revamp the analytic department are all we need— maybe, but it is hard not to see the steady slide to average that has occurred over the last 5 years. I’m not sold that these changes will be enough. Our team is really behind right now and it is a big leap of faith to think that our brain trust is going to fix these things.


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PostPosted: August 7 19, 12:05 pm 
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Wait, I'm confused. I thought I said in the Cards Asset thread that the Fowler signing was OK?

Checking... Yes, I did:
Quote:
Fowler's contract was an ok decision that now looks terrible.


And I said in this thread that I was "all for" this signing after we lost out on the moves I liked - Heyward, I believe.

I guess I'm not sure what the point is here? In the assets thread, I said that most of these moves are justifiable at the time -- including Fowler, as I say. The problem is in the collected picture of all of these individually justifiable moves have created a roster that isn't justifiable.

Today, the right decision might be to go to Burger King for a fast burger and skip my workout. Tomorrow that might also be the right decision. And even the day after. But, if I justify that decision everyday for three years, the fire department is going to have to use a crane to get me out of my house.


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