Molina plans to retire after his contract

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TheoSqua
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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by TheoSqua »

I think Molina makes it into the HoF for several reasons:

1.) He's got solid counting stats and longevity.
2.) He has the defensive reputation and the defensive numbers.
3.) He has memorable post-season moments and was a critical piece to both the 2006 and 2011 WS wins.
4.) He is the most likely candidate to get into the HoF to represent this era of Cardinals success. I mean Pujols will get in as well, but outside of him Molina is the next best bet.

Even if he doesn't get in via the media votes I think he'll get in via veterans committee.

If you're trying to tell the story of the 2000s and 2010s you can't do it without talking about the Cardinals run of success. And you can't talk about the Cardinals run of success without Molina, who is the biggest anchor of the team's last 15 or so years of success.

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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by Freed Roger »

FWIW I think he'll likely get in the HoF - like theosqua says. . Other players and managers know what catchers do, and he's one of the best from this era. Their opinion impacts the voter network. He gets in the Ozzie way (as a leading rep of great teams, pivotal moments, and a lead defender at a key defensive position).

Below is an old Derek Gould analysis on Yadi's effect on pitching.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 2bc8b.html

The short of it, many starting catchers have a good ERA impact gap - Card's ERA with and W/o Yadi is a gulch, not a gap. then Gould just gets Carp's opinion which is agreement, ala better to take the butcher's word for it etc etc.
if pattern stays at least steady for next 3 years, There will be no shortage of people lobbying for Yadi.

And FWIW, I don't care much about HoF. He's had a good run as a Cardinal, and hope they get the most from him these next 3 years.

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JoeMcKim
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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by JoeMcKim »

The question is will Carson Kelly be the one to take over for Yadi when he does retire. Carson will definitely have to prove that he can hit MLB pitching before that though.

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pioneer98
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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by pioneer98 »

Right now Yadi is right between 4 Hall of Famers on that "most games at catcher" list. He's just ahead of HOFers Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra, and he's right behind Johnny Bench and Ray Schalk. Ted Simmons is just ahead of Johnny Bench.

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Hoot45
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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by Hoot45 »

Speaking of influencer opinions, TLR walks around crediting a decade of his success to Yadi. That's a pretty big endorsement from a HOF'er that also happens to be one of MLB's most successful managers ever.

Yadi has three years to accumulate more counting stats, for his haters to chill as he winds down his career, and for people around the sport to catch on to the much improved advanced metrics for catchers that will boost his on-paper resume and close the gap left by his non-HOF worthy offense.

Another interesting element to Yadi's story is that depending on how the game evolves, he might be remembered as the last and greatest magician of an era of catcher manipulation (for lack of a better term). If technology has its way (see: Statcast replacing PITCHF/x) framing as a skill could be unnecessary.

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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by cardsfantx »

JoeMcKim wrote:The question is will Carson Kelly be the one to take over for Yadi when he does retire. Carson will definitely have to prove that he can hit MLB pitching before that though.
Andrew Knizner IMO

which is why i want them to trade kelly now, while he still has the shine of arguably the top C prospect

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Kelly is slower than dirt. That alone makes me want to move on from him.

Bigger fan of Knizner too.

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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by Padsfs »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:I'm still surprised Posey and Russell Martin have more career fWAR than Molina. Both younger.
Posey just finished his age-30 season. I'm interested in how his decline phase will affect him since he doesn't catch as much anymore. Pujols had a really amazing 10 year stretch too and then fell off a cliff hitting-wise.

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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by Diddy »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:Kelly is slower than dirt. That alone makes me want to move on from him.

Bigger fan of Knizner too.
Good thing they didn’t move on from Molina for that reason.

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Re: Molina plans to retire after his contract

Post by Fat Strat »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:Kelly is slower than dirt. That alone makes me want to move on from him.

Bigger fan of Knizner too.
Knizner is the new shiny toy, but I don't know any scouts who would put Knizner in Kelly's class. They're similar offensively, but Kelly's defensive ability and profile is significantly better.

Not to say that Knizner isn't an intriguing guy, because he absolutely is. If he has another year like he did last year, he could bridge that gap between himself and Kelly.


More broadly, I think we tend to look more optimistically with prospects we haven't yet see and look more pessimistically at ones we have seen over short stretches who didn't perform as well as we might have hoped.

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