Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
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Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
Interesting developments on the Cards front. There's definitely some quiet whispers about Marp playing 3rd so that Jose Martinez can get full-time AB's at the only position where he's really viable -- 1b. The problem with that one move is that has a pretty significant trickle down effect. Displacing Marp off 1b moves Gyorko off 3b. And if Gyorko hits like's capable of, does that displace Wong off 2b? And how is that possible, considering the really very good season Wong had last year and the likelihood that he'll not only provide solid offense again, but will bounce back to his usual excellent defense? Gyorko, likewise, displayed defensive excellence at 3rd base last season, something he's never been able to do at 2b. (That makes a lot of sense, considering his size and quickness. Gyorko is a -5 DRS career at 2b. He's +15 at 3b career. Pretty obvious where he should play. Likewise, Kolten Wong is +18 at 2b in his relatively short career. He's a good to great defender there.)
Martinez is an interesting case. In 300 AB's last year, he had tremendous offensive numbers. But, his defense was so bad that his WAR value was only 1.6. Take 2/3rd of that to get him to 500 PA's, and you end up with a 2.7 WAR player for a full season. Gyorko was a 2.5 WAR player last year, with an injury. Wong a 2.1 in low PA's due to injury. Marp 2.9, with his lowest imaginable BABIP.
Then there is the pitching staff to consider. To thrive, they need the best defense they can get.
How do you solve this predicament? A mass rotatation of 4 interchangable parts? Go with what is perceived as the best offensive option -- Marp/DeJong/Gyorko/Martinez across the infield? Go with the best defensive option -- Gyorko/DeJong/Wong/Marp? Wait for the inevitably injury to sort this out?
Martinez is an interesting case. In 300 AB's last year, he had tremendous offensive numbers. But, his defense was so bad that his WAR value was only 1.6. Take 2/3rd of that to get him to 500 PA's, and you end up with a 2.7 WAR player for a full season. Gyorko was a 2.5 WAR player last year, with an injury. Wong a 2.1 in low PA's due to injury. Marp 2.9, with his lowest imaginable BABIP.
Then there is the pitching staff to consider. To thrive, they need the best defense they can get.
How do you solve this predicament? A mass rotatation of 4 interchangable parts? Go with what is perceived as the best offensive option -- Marp/DeJong/Gyorko/Martinez across the infield? Go with the best defensive option -- Gyorko/DeJong/Wong/Marp? Wait for the inevitably injury to sort this out?
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
Good topic.
I think this move is fine once a week, against a lefty pitcher. But I certainly wouldn't want this being the every day line up, given the ugly defense that will ensue.
I think this move is fine once a week, against a lefty pitcher. But I certainly wouldn't want this being the every day line up, given the ugly defense that will ensue.
- ZigZagCardsFan
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
I think you rotate these guys out, maybe even Fowler too, giving everybody one in five days off. They're not all going to stay healthy with Pham having injury concerns too.
It's a good problem to have.
It's a good problem to have.
- pioneer98
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
You solve it by trading some of these guys for either a 3B slugger or a 1B slugger
- Hoot45
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
I wouldn't call it quiet whispers:
Carpenter:
Carpenter:
Matheny:“We’ve got to find a way to get him in the lineup, because he can really swing it,” said Matt Carpenter, who acknowledged he will at times lose at-bats to Jose Martinez. “One of the luxuries that we have with this club is, I can move to second for the day, move to third for a day. He can play first. He can give an outfielder an off day.
“I don’t see it as a challenge. If he keeps hitting, he’s going to play.”
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
I go with the defensive lineup. Injuries, days off, and inter league games will make it a mostly moot point long term.
- MrCrowesGarden
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
Amazing how we went from Marp can only play first to lets slide Marp in at 2nd or 3rd if we have to within the span of a week.
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
Yeah...this. He has a bad back and shoulder. Is playing 3B going to go well for him? Probably not.MrCrowesGarden wrote:Amazing how we went from Marp can only play first to lets slide Marp in at 2nd or 3rd if we have to within the span of a week.
Jose Martinez deserves to start at 1B against LHP, or in the OF whenever Fowler needs a day off. I really don't see Marp moving around the infield at this age.
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
Right, there's no way I want a guy who had nagging injuries last year and missed half of spring this year with a bad back playing 3B.heyzeus wrote:Yeah...this. He has a bad back and shoulder. Is playing 3B going to go well for him? Probably not.MrCrowesGarden wrote:Amazing how we went from Marp can only play first to lets slide Marp in at 2nd or 3rd if we have to within the span of a week.
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Re: Marp, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wong
I actually think we would be better off sticking Marp or Gyorko in the OF (definitely Wong) than putting Martinez out there for the occasional OF off day. By some miracle of the devil, Martinez was -7 in the OF in just 300 ip's. That's about as bad as it can get. That's a -21.1 UZR/150.heyzeus wrote:Yeah...this. He has a bad back and shoulder. Is playing 3B going to go well for him? Probably not.MrCrowesGarden wrote:Amazing how we went from Marp can only play first to lets slide Marp in at 2nd or 3rd if we have to within the span of a week.
Jose Martinez deserves to start at 1B against LHP, or in the OF whenever Fowler needs a day off. I really don't see Marp moving around the infield at this age.
Edit -- I had to look it up... I can't get him to show up on the leaderboards, but if I sort by 250 ip's minimum and UZR/150, he would have had the 5th worst in all of baseball last season. That's a remarkable level of bad defense, considering it came at the easiest positions to play on the field. You can imagine a bat-first 2b'man forced to play SS for a month or two might get there, but not a corner OF'er with 1000's of MiLB ip's in LF/RF.