Carp (and others) on the shift

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pioneer98
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Re: Carp (and others) on the shift

Post by pioneer98 »

go birds wrote:make it the size of a softball

They got the "start with a runner on 2nd in extra innings" idea from softball so why not

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Momo
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Re: Carp (and others) on the shift

Post by Momo »

I saw this article yesterday, and I don't really see what Carp is on about here:
"There's this whole narrative of 'Why don't guys just hit ground balls to short?' The answer is: (a) It's not that easy and (b) it's the complete thing you've taught yourself your entire baseball career to avoid. If a guy has a chance to hit a homer and a double, and he goes up there trying to slap a ground ball to short, the other team is perfectly fine with that.
This is like the most anti-OBP stance ever (which is bizarre for a guy who made his money as a high OBP guy), and I don't think it's true to boot. Carp actually has the most reasonable stance (way more than Murphy's) in that the the difficulty part is basically true, and nothing in baseball could probably ever be called "easy."

Regardless, a single is still a hit. A bunt single is still a hit. A defense is not going to be satisfied giving up consistent hits to a player, even if its a trade-off for neutralizing an occasional homer or XBH. Obviously a double (or 3B/HR) is more productive than a single, but an out is less productive than any other option.

And no one is saying "Pull hitters need to bunt forever," as that clearly would be ridiculous. People are saying "learn how to bunt at just a competent level," do it for a few ABs and you'll stop being shifted on. You don't even need to necessarily actually get hits, you need to get the defense to respect your ability to put the ball onto that side of the field. But even as an extreme thought experiment, say you went all the way through to becoming a "good" bunter, and became good enough to get a hit 60% of the time...that's a 1.200 OPS. No defense is going to let you have an OPS above peak Barry Bonds just for the sake of neutralizing the occasional XBH.

This whole article supports the notion that players still don't see the inherent value in being on base, and aren't unable to beat the shift, but are largely unwilling to do so.

Diddy
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Re: Carp (and others) on the shift

Post by Diddy »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:I remember someone talking about good Phadams against the shift...

The gist of it was, sure, if he goes up there and bunts, that's a win for the defense becuase 1) it eliminates extra base hits and 2) it's not that easy
I don’t get the argument that bunting is not that easy. Against the shift your not trying to perfectly place the ball to the right side between the pitcher, catcher and first baseman, against a pitcher and defensive that knows what your doing and is trying to prevent it. Your trying to slap the ball against the shift against a pitcher and defense that is giving you that option.

I don’t think you’d have to do it often for the defenses to make changes. Also there are situations in games where baserunners are imperative and it’s an even better strategy but hitters don’t seem interested in bunting.

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Re: Carp (and others) on the shift

Post by Fat Strat »

go birds wrote:make it the size of a softball
Or a canaloupe.

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TigCards
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Re: Carp (and others) on the shift

Post by TigCards »

Yes , and make the defense wear those giant Clarabel the Clown shoes , and instead of a glove , how about one of those horns that go “ TOOT “ . And don’t forget the rubber nose .

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