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PostPosted: October 13 18, 1:59 pm 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
They could cut him today, and he wouldn't be on the opening-day roster or the 40-man roster. I realize that's not happening, but if he's really awful in spring training, it's possible that he's not on the opening-day roster.

What have they guaranteed him?

They haven’t released it yet, but I would guess a 5 mil base with incentives that go as high as 12.


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PostPosted: October 13 18, 2:23 pm 
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It's more about what Adam guarantees them. Sold out stadium on his start, merch up the ying-yang, etc.. This FO proved it cared more about profits a long time ago. They shoved him out to the mound when he was throwing 85 with no command.. They don't care about competitiveness.


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PostPosted: October 13 18, 3:06 pm 
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InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
They could cut him today, and he wouldn't be on the opening-day roster or the 40-man roster. I realize that's not happening, but if he's really awful in spring training, it's possible that he's not on the opening-day roster.

What have they guaranteed him?

They haven’t released it yet, but I would guess a 5 mil base with incentives that go as high as 12.


That would suck.


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PostPosted: October 13 18, 3:07 pm 
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MinorLeagueGuy wrote:
It's more about what Adam guarantees them. Sold out stadium on his start, merch up the ying-yang, etc.. This FO proved it cared more about profits a long time ago. They shoved him out to the mound when he was throwing 85 with no command.. They don't care about competitiveness.



Why is the deal incentive- based, then? Why not just give him a load of cash?


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PostPosted: October 13 18, 3:09 pm 
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Apparently Bernie Miklasz the other day on the radio hinted that the Cardinals were interested in a big name pitcher. I read that on another forum, so take it for what it's worth. But in a recent piece he wrote about the Wainwright signing, he said that the team was thinking of adding a pitcher and said to keep on eye on the ALCS, almost certainly hinting at Keuchel.


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PostPosted: October 13 18, 7:33 pm 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
MinorLeagueGuy wrote:
It's more about what Adam guarantees them. Sold out stadium on his start, merch up the ying-yang, etc.. This FO proved it cared more about profits a long time ago. They shoved him out to the mound when he was throwing 85 with no command.. They don't care about competitiveness.



Why is the deal incentive- based, then? Why not just give him a load of cash?

Again, it's not "incentive-based." It's "incentive-laden" with a guaranteed base.

As for MLG's post, Waino isn't moving the needle for crowds anymore.


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PostPosted: October 15 18, 8:51 am 
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MinorLeagueGuy wrote:
It's more about what Adam guarantees them. Sold out stadium on his start, merch up the ying-yang, etc.. This FO proved it cared more about profits a long time ago. They shoved him out to the mound when he was throwing 85 with no command.. They don't care about competitiveness.


Geez, after keeping up with this thread, why even bother watching the Cards anymore. Clearly they are never going to win again so let's all just give up.


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PostPosted: October 15 18, 9:12 am 
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I'm not sure why everyone is hating on this deal so much.

1.) Wainwright provides some depth and value to the team. The team had 11 players start at least one game last season, so it's not like the team has 5 guaranteed starters that Wainwright might push out.
2.) The team only had 1 pitcher crack 160 innings. They don't have a lot of deep innings pitchers.
3.) Of the 11 pitchers to start, 8 of them were under 27 this season. So it's a young staff without a ton of veteran presence. The other 2 starters over 27 on the team, Ross and Mikolas, have been with the Cardinals for 1 season. So there's an argument to be made that Wainwright provides some value as a veteran presence who has been with the organization a long time.
4.) Wainwright is willing to start or pitch in relief, so he has potential to help in any spot.
5.) Wagonmaker will only be 37. Yeah that's old, but there have been pitchers pitch effectively at that age before. It's obviously not realistic to expect him to compete for a cy young like he did in his prime, but there is some evidence, like his K rate and high BABIP, that he might be able to provide some value next season.

If this were a 20mil contract or something, i'd hate it. But a low base + incentives just gives the team more flexibility. And keeping Wainwright around for another year is a nice sentiment, especially if he can provide some value.


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PostPosted: October 15 18, 9:19 am 
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TheoSqua wrote:
I'm not sure why everyone is hating on this deal so much.

1.) Wainwright provides some depth and value to the team. The team had 11 players start at least one game last season, so it's not like the team has 5 guaranteed starters that Wainwright might push out.
2.) The team only had 1 pitcher crack 160 innings. They don't have a lot of deep innings pitchers.
3.) Of the 11 pitchers to start, 8 of them were under 27 this season. So it's a young staff without a ton of veteran presence. The other 2 starters over 27 on the team, Ross and Mikolas, have been with the Cardinals for 1 season. So there's an argument to be made that Wainwright provides some value as a veteran presence who has been with the organization a long time.
4.) Wainwright is willing to start or pitch in relief, so he has potential to help in any spot.
5.) Wagonmaker will only be 37. Yeah that's old, but there have been pitchers pitch effectively at that age before. It's obviously not realistic to expect him to compete for a cy young like he did in his prime, but there is some evidence, like his K rate and high BABIP, that he might be able to provide some value next season.

If this were a 20mil contract or something, i'd hate it. But a low base + incentives just gives the team more flexibility. And keeping Wainwright around for another year is a nice sentiment, especially if he can provide some value.


Seems to me people here think signing Waino will prevent us from signing a much better starting pitcher. That could end up being the case, but it also means money could be invested somewhere else. So to me, there's no point in getting upset until we see how the entire off season shakes out.


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PostPosted: October 16 18, 3:18 pm 
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