Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp pick

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by CardsofSTL »

Need a powder blue Goldy jersey.

Or they need to do a gold alternate jersey to celebrate getting Goldy; and then Hoot can buy me one of those as compensation for not taking me to a ball game last year.

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Hoot45
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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by Hoot45 »

CardsofSTL wrote:Need a powder blue Goldy jersey.

Or they need to do a gold alternate jersey to celebrate getting Goldy; and then Hoot can buy me one of those as compensation for not taking me to a ball game last year.
:lol:

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Swirls
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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by Swirls »

jagtrader wrote:
phins wrote:He's probably a #4 starter with five years of control. There is a ton of surplus value in that.

Will the loss of Weaver hurt us next year? I don't really think so because I think you can get 2-win pitchers pretty reliably from within or off the scrapheap.
Which is it?
It's both. The surplus value comes in Weaver being essentially free for the next few years, with a couple years still of options and therefore being able to shuttle back and forth between AAA and MLB.

Sure a 2-win pitcher is fairly easy to acquire in FA or "from the scrap heap," but they likely will be veterans or perhaps AAAA pitchers without remaining options. There is definitely value in a player still having options and making the league minimum.

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wart57
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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by wart57 »

Diddy wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Big Amoco Sign wrote:If Goldschmidt is a one year rental, why not go for Bryce?
Half of my off season prophesy has come true...

Now for Bryce....
I’m pretty sure I was the first one to suggest Goldy this off-season but you were quick to jump on the band wagon.
Wrong!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60064&p=1712647&hil ... t#p1712647


:cool:

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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by planet planet »

Was there anything floated about what the Astros offered?

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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by jagtrader »

Swirls wrote:
jagtrader wrote:
phins wrote:He's probably a #4 starter with five years of control. There is a ton of surplus value in that.

Will the loss of Weaver hurt us next year? I don't really think so because I think you can get 2-win pitchers pretty reliably from within or off the scrapheap.
Which is it?
It's both. The surplus value comes in Weaver being essentially free for the next few years, with a couple years still of options and therefore being able to shuttle back and forth between AAA and MLB.

Sure a 2-win pitcher is fairly easy to acquire in FA or "from the scrap heap," but they likely will be veterans or perhaps AAAA pitchers without remaining options. There is definitely value in a player still having options and making the league minimum.
It can't be both. Weaver will almost certainly prove more valuable than his contract until arbitration hikes his salary. But if you can throw John Gant out there and not tell the difference, it's not really value. It's saving a few million on the margins. That's not worth a whole lot when you're spending $150 million.

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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by Radbird »

phins wrote:This is the type of "win-win" trade that the Cardinals should have been looking to make. Trade depth, usable pieces for a star. Sort of a consolidation trade of good, young pieces.

Weaver is a nice get for the Diamondbacks. A year ago at this time he would've been considered one of the better young pitchers in the NL. Now he's trash and everyone is happy that's "all" we gave up. He's probably a #4 starter with five years of control. There is a ton of surplus value in that.

Carson Kelly has long been a player I've liked because I've seen him play so dang much. His career arc just reinforces how little I really know because I thought he was going to be a power-over-hit 3B with an excellent arm. Now, he's a plus defending catcher with a suspect bat. Keep in mind the average catcher last year hit .232/.304/.372 with 8.0% walk rate and 23.5% K rates. Kelly doesn't have a high bar to climb to be a 2-WAR starting catcher with six years of control.

Andy Young is your power-over-hit archetype with suspect contact skills and is old for his league. Saw him live several times and he's just a grinder. Keep in mind, he played in the same conference with Missouri State so I've been watching the guy play live since college. He's had a bit of a swing change and sells out for power to the pull side now. He has to hit enough to be a starter because he can't play SS and he is a right-handed hitter, which reduces his value a tick more. I like him and think he's a great bench bat, low-end starter at 2B. Six years of control.

Arizona gets the pick a year early. I really wish they had balked at this part of the deal, but it's not enough to upset me.

The Diamondbacks got a whole heap for one year of Goldschmidt (plus salary savings). The Cardinals did exactly what they should be doing, which is trading fungible parts that they develop pretty well for a true star player. Will the loss of Weaver hurt us next year? I don't really think so because I think you can get 2-win pitchers pretty reliably from within or off the scrapheap. Keeping Kelly probably just makes him a diminishing asset with the clock starting. Young is a great throw-in for Arizona, but has no place for a few years here.

Fair deal that fans of both clubs should be quite happy with. I knew that Arizona was never getting an O'Neil type in the deal, but they honestly ended up with a little more than expected. The Cardinals get him now and can look for finishes at the winter meetings so they paid a tick more.

Happy with it.
What is your view on the Harper pursuit? Does signing Goldy shut that door?

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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

jagtrader wrote:
Swirls wrote:
jagtrader wrote:
phins wrote:He's probably a #4 starter with five years of control. There is a ton of surplus value in that.

Will the loss of Weaver hurt us next year? I don't really think so because I think you can get 2-win pitchers pretty reliably from within or off the scrapheap.
Which is it?
It's both. The surplus value comes in Weaver being essentially free for the next few years, with a couple years still of options and therefore being able to shuttle back and forth between AAA and MLB.

Sure a 2-win pitcher is fairly easy to acquire in FA or "from the scrap heap," but they likely will be veterans or perhaps AAAA pitchers without remaining options. There is definitely value in a player still having options and making the league minimum.
It can't be both. Weaver will almost certainly prove more valuable than his contract until arbitration hikes his salary. But if you can throw John Gant out there and not tell the difference, it's not really value. It's saving a few million on the margins. That's not worth a whole lot when you're spending $150 million.

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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by Cronos »

What's everyone's preferred lineup as they sit right now after this move?

This is mine:

Carpenter
Bader
Goldschmidt
Ozuna
DeJong
Fowler/O'Neill
Molina
Wong
P

(preferably more O'Neill than Fowler, but I think Fowler still has some left in the tank).

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Goldschmidt to Cardinals for Kelly, Weaver, Young, Comp

Post by CardsofSTL »

Cronos wrote:What's everyone's preferred lineup as they sit right now after this move?

This is mine:

Carpenter
Bader
Goldschmidt
Ozuna
DeJong
Fowler/O'Neill
Molina
Wong
P

(preferably more O'Neill than Fowler, but I think Fowler still has some left in the tank).
What I would like to see would be more like:

Bader
Carpenter
Goldschmidt
Ozuna
DeJong
O'Neill
Wong
Molina
Pitcher

But Carpenter will be batting lead off and Fowler will probably get the starts initially unless/until he craps out again and Molina won't bat that low in the lineup; so something like this is probably what we will see:

Carpenter
Fowler
Goldschmidt
Ozuna
DeJong
Molina
Wong
Bader
Pitcher

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