Matheny hired by KC

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stlouie_lipp
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by stlouie_lipp »

go birds wrote:prolly where he should have started in the first place. i wish him success.
Yep. It's not his fault he was hired for a job for which he wasn't qualified.

Socnorb11
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by Socnorb11 »

Is there any reason to think that he's qualified for THIS job?

Freed Roger
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by Freed Roger »

Good for Matheny. Though I wish he could have stayed in the division/NL

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dan_yall
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by dan_yall »

Matheny had clearly worn out his welcome by the end of his run, but let's give the guy some credit. His teams average almost 94 wins a year in his first four seasons, and that's after losing arguably the best player in franchise history. His four-year peak approaches peak LaRussa without nearly as stacked of a roster. For comparison, LaRussa teams had a player put up at least 8 bWAR eight times in sixteen seasons. That never happened under Matheny. The closest was 7.2 by Yadi in 2012.

It's impossible to know, but it is hard to imagine Matheny performing much worse than LaRussa if he was given those mid-2000's rosters.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

dan_yall wrote:let's give the guy some credit. His teams average almost 94 wins a year in his first four seasons, and that's after losing arguably the best player in franchise history
They won in spite of him. Matheny had little to do with their success in that time.

All that proves is that managers don't mean much. That's why guys who hang out in the broadcast booth are offered jobs now. Matheny was close to the same age as the players in that earlier time so he was just "another guy" to them. But when it came to coaching younger guys like Wong--he struggled immensely.

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dan_yall
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by dan_yall »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
dan_yall wrote:let's give the guy some credit. His teams average almost 94 wins a year in his first four seasons, and that's after losing arguably the best player in franchise history
They won in spite of him. Matheny had little to do with their success in that time.

All that proves is that managers don't mean much. That's why guys who hang out in the broadcast booth are offered jobs now. Matheny was close to the same age as the players in that earlier time so he was just "another guy" to them. But when it came to coaching younger guys like Wong--he struggled immensely.
I don't disagree. How the GM and ownership put together the roster is far and away to most important thing.

I do wonder if TLR would have lasted to 2011 if he hadn't pulled that 2006 world series out of his butt.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

TLR was handed a super team during the early 2000s and still overmanaged his way into several losses.

I find him to be very overrated. Would take him a million times over Matheny though.

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Hoot45
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by Hoot45 »

As a coach myself, I get annoyed by the idea that a manager can't win you games but they can lose them for you. It's a fallacy to say Matheny is to blame for the bad years but did nothing to contribute to the good ones. Every year in every sport there are managers that spoil good teams. To that end, I've often heard professional coaches say at clinics that their proudest achievements were not what they did, but rather what they didn't do. LaRussa was one of those people, by the way. Sometimes letting a good team win is more difficult than making a bad one succeed.

Anyway, this position should be a good fit for Mike. I think he's always been better in a one-on-one mentor type role. Player development is something he should succeed with when he isn't having to do it from the manager's desk.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Matheny hired by KC

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Bullpen decisions can certainly lose you games. And just making the ones you're suppose to make (the ones that can win the games) aren't the sign of a good manager--so in a way, yes they can help you lose, but not really be vital for winnings. I think bullpen management is where managers are most valuable and now that's all ran by the GM even.

Mike's best fit is bullpen catcher or catching coach. My man is in some serious need of humility. Ego the size of Texas. He would benefit a lot down in the minors. He needs to learn how to talk to young guys.

Dayton Moore is a big time evangelical type. I saw this hire coming a mile away. Beliefs aside, those guys stick together.

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