Cards Not Looking At Starter

Discuss all things Cardinals Baseball
Socnorb11
The Last Word
Posts: 21588
Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Socnorb11 »

The Brewers won the division with some guy name Junior Guerra starting 26 games for them.

The Cardinals' starting pitching depth is fine.

User avatar
go birds
-go birds
Posts: 31896
Joined: February 5 10, 9:54 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by go birds »

prolly had nothing to do with their lights out bullpen or their MVP OFer

Socnorb11
The Last Word
Posts: 21588
Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Socnorb11 »

go birds wrote:prolly had nothing to do with their lights out bullpen or their MVP OFer

Of course it did. If your point is that the Cardinals need a great year from Goldschmidt and a great bullpen, then we agree. That's exactly what they should be using their resources on.

User avatar
MrCrowesGarden
'Burb Boy
Posts: 23630
Joined: July 9 06, 11:33 am
Location: Out of the Loop

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

The Brewers added two MVP caliber players last year.

Socnorb11
The Last Word
Posts: 21588
Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Socnorb11 »

MrCrowesGarden wrote:The Brewers added two MVP caliber players last year.
That's nice.

They scored fewer runs than the Cardinals scored BEFORE ADDING GOLDY.

Also, some guy named Junior Guerra started 26 games for them.

The Cardinals starting pitching is fine. Continue to bolster the bullpen, if anything.

User avatar
JCShutout
MacGyver of Underwear
Posts: 13018
Joined: April 18 06, 7:53 am
Location: South City

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by JCShutout »

Adding a starter pushes a pretty good pitcher into the pen, replacing the worst bp pitcher. Adding a starter DOES help address the pen.

That said, only do it if you can get a nice 1-2 year deal out of someone. Let waino have a shot at the 7th or 8th.

Fat Strat
Official GRB Sponsor of Larry Bigbie
Posts: 28050
Joined: April 17 06, 9:16 pm
Location: No. 16 on the Cards Top 15 Prospect List

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Fat Strat »

Socnorb11 wrote:The Brewers won the division with some guy name Junior Guerra starting 26 games for them.

The Cardinals' starting pitching depth is fine.
That’s a terrible argument for us not adding a pitcher who could easily be better than anyone else currently in our rotation. Fine could be great. It all trickles down. That’s the point. Absolutely nothing to lose by adding a quality starter in Kuechel.


edit: Just to elaborate - the point is that we can be better than the Brewers. If the Brewers want to run Junior Guerra out there, then we don't have to run Poncedeleon out there in an equally mediocre counter. If all things are about equal now -- and a lot of models have us in a dead-heat with the Cubs and the Brewers a significant step behind -- then we should try to tip the scale, not be happy with staying even. A competitive imbalance in the market is the perfect opportunity to do that at a discount.

That's what the Card have made a killing doing -- making smart decisions. In this market, signing the older starter to a short-term deal is the smart decision.

User avatar
Big Amoco Sign
Master of Hyperbole
Posts: 14402
Joined: December 1 17, 11:05 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Fat Strat wrote: That’s a terrible argument for us not adding a pitcher who could easily be better than anyone else currently in our rotation. Fine could be great. It all trickles down. That’s the point. Absolutely nothing to lose by adding a quality starter in Kuechel.
I just don't get the "signing old pitcher" with provably declining skills thing. Outside of Scherzer, tell me the last age 31+ big FA signing that wasn't a letdown?

If you can get him on a one year deal at like 22 million, then do it.

Socnorb11
The Last Word
Posts: 21588
Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Socnorb11 »

Fat Strat wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:The Brewers won the division with some guy name Junior Guerra starting 26 games for them.

The Cardinals' starting pitching depth is fine.
That’s a terrible argument for us not adding a pitcher who could easily be better than anyone else currently in our rotation. Fine could be great. It all trickles down. That’s the point. Absolutely nothing to lose by adding a quality starter in Kuechel.
I was specifically responding to this notion:
Fat Strat wrote:If we count on one injury and plan on two, then we might as well say now that we are really happy competing for a championship while needing 400 SP innings spread out over Gant, Hudson, and poncedeleon. Plus another 175-200 from Reyes and AW.

That's just silly. The market is handing us reliable, effective and often brilliant starters on discounted deals. Take advantage, MO. Stop settling for "good enough". Sign a SP. Trade a few arms for a lefty bat to end the roster paralysis. And lets make a real effort to win this thing.

Again, we CAN count on those guys to pitch some innings, and still have a championship team. The Brewers did just that. Going into the season riding the assumption that we're going to lose 400 innings worth of starting pitching is a stretch (and that's putting it mildly). Those guys that you mentioned had a little over 200 innings pitched last year, and that was with Reyes, Waino and Wacha hardly pitching at all. Starting pitching wasn't even remotely the reason the Cards didn't win the division last year. Their starting pitching was significantly better than both the Cubs and the Brewers (and that's with our scrubs pitching a ton of innings). The team has weaknesses........... they should address those.

Instead of using resources to acquire surplus starting pitching, why don't we see how the season plays out, and determine if we NEED surplus starting pitching. Those resource may be needed elsewhere, before it's all said and done.

Keuchel is seeking a 5-year deal, with several teams interested, and he's literally the only guy on the market that might be better than what the Cards are rolling with.

User avatar
Big Amoco Sign
Master of Hyperbole
Posts: 14402
Joined: December 1 17, 11:05 am

Re: Cards Not Looking At Starter

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

I see an argument for Keuchel being an effective LOOGY in his last year or so--meaning he will have some value after skills erode. LOOGYs can pitch until 52 it seems like. Just not at the price for our cheap owner. However, in a vacuum, sure, why not? Investment wise, not worth probably.

Post Reply