Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculation

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go birds
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by go birds »

is catcher ERA factored into WAR?

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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by Fat Strat »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:I'm sure it'll get corrected somewhat, but it is a position that should carry some extra value. I never liked comparing it straight to a 2B or LFer. (in a positional weighted WAR sense)

They touch the ball on every play, so why are they losing value because an OFer might go three innings before making a contribution to a game?

I'm interested in the pitchers who may lose value due to catcher framing.
We know what happens to hitters when they get behind in a count. A single called strike that's not a strike has a pretty wild swing on even good hitters. Even if that happens just 3-4 times a game over 120'ish pitches (or more), you turn a good hitter into a replacement level hitter and a replacement level hitter into a high schooler. I can see the potential impact that a good pitch framer can have. It would add up very fast. I do wonder how they're going to be able to establish an average or replacement level baseline for this. (Maybe I should read the article...)

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Good point on the baseline. I wonder what replacement level catcher framing would look like.

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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by Fat Strat »

This is hilarious... it turns 2008 Ryan Doumit into one of the worst players in baseball history.

Doumit had an impressive batting line of .318/.357/.501. As a catcher that's exceptionally good! A 123 wRC+ to boot. Not shabby at all.

His WAR value that season? -2.8. Hehehehe... that's so bad! It's hilariously bad. And historically bad. That would be the 4th worst season by a player since 1975. That's nearly as bad as Chris Davis' 2018 -3.1 WAR where the slugger hit .168/.243/.296.

Think about that... Doumit hit .318/.357/.501. Chris Davis hit .168/.243/.296 with horrendous defense. And their value is within the WAR margin of error.

This is kind of fun. Surreal. But fun.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by Popeye_Card »

Doesn't the success of pitch-framing rely heavily on the umpire? A catcher can frame a pitch spectacularly. Many umps will call it a strike. Others won't bite. Some will call it a strike even if it is framed poorly.

Maybe all that is accounted for.

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MAGA
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by MAGA »

Popeye_Card wrote:Doesn't the success of pitch-framing rely heavily on the umpire? A catcher can frame a pitch spectacularly. Many umps will call it a strike. Others won't bite. Some will call it a strike even if it is framed poorly.

Maybe all that is accounted for.
That came to my mind as well. It seems like you’d have to account for umpire tendencies.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

That's accounted for.

It's actual location vs. called strike or not. Strike zone is comprised of umpire history and the vast amounts of data that make up the actual zone itself.

In a sense it ignores umpire bias and goes straight for pitch location relative to that umpire's zone based on historical data.
Last edited by Big Amoco Sign on March 20 19, 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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MAGA
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by MAGA »

Catcher’s ability to call a game must be impossible to quantify but is probably important.

Not all catchers call games.
Most pitchers shake off the first offering (but how do you account for a catcher expecting that and manipulating a pitcher’s psychology?)
General game theory principles that can go back months in previous matchups, etc
Etc

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sjgoten6
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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by sjgoten6 »

Because I can't click on the link yet, can someone tell me Yadi's before and after updated career WAR?

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Re: Catcher framing stats added to Fangraphs’ WAR calculatio

Post by bluesman1111 »

Fat Strat wrote:This is hilarious... it turns 2008 Ryan Doumit into one of the worst players in baseball history.

Doumit had an impressive batting line of .318/.357/.501. As a catcher that's exceptionally good! A 123 wRC+ to boot. Not shabby at all.

His WAR value that season? -2.8. Hehehehe... that's so bad! It's hilariously bad. And historically bad. That would be the 4th worst season by a player since 1975. That's nearly as bad as Chris Davis' 2018 -3.1 WAR where the slugger hit .168/.243/.296.

Think about that... Doumit hit .318/.357/.501. Chris Davis hit .168/.243/.296 with horrendous defense. And their value is within the WAR margin of error.

This is kind of fun. Surreal. But fun.
Pirates record in 2008...67-95, but this stat goes both ways, is a catchers framing so poor he's turning strikes into balls.

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