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PostPosted: May 28 19, 5:49 pm 
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InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
6.35 is pretty damn close to league average in the PCL this year.


Great! Our new starter is average compared to other minor league pitchers. Well, that will sure turn things around! =D>


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PostPosted: May 28 19, 6:02 pm 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Pretty clearly a move to inflate the value of their return for Pham (a trade that continues to not make sense) and nothing more.


If he gets lit up it's not going to inflate anything. If he pitches well then it's good for us. The Pham deal is what it is by this point. Fans hate it and always will and I don't blame anyone for that but I don't think it's fair to Cabrera to bring it up any time he gets mentioned.


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PostPosted: May 29 19, 8:18 pm 
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3 earned in 3 innings. Well. That won't get him in the Cy talk this season.


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PostPosted: May 30 19, 3:57 am 
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CardsofSTL wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Pretty clearly a move to inflate the value of their return for Pham (a trade that continues to not make sense) and nothing more.


If he gets lit up it's not going to inflate anything. If he pitches well then it's good for us. The Pham deal is what it is by this point. Fans hate it and always will and I don't blame anyone for that but I don't think it's fair to Cabrera to bring it up any time he gets mentioned.

I do. Cabrera clearly wasn’t ready, the best option, or even deserving of this chance. And the fo has a history of favoring prospects based on their backstory as much as their talent. Kozma, for instance wouldn’t have ever made the majors had he not been picked in the first round. Cabrera wouldn’t have been called up if Pham was batting .200 with 3 rbi.

You might think that’s incredibly stupid and likely false and I’d say it is and it’s not, respectively. The fo made an incredibly stupid trade and is now doubling down on it trying to figure out a way to make it not quite as stupid. But they can’t because they just botched this thing to high heaven. Unless Cabrera figures out how to pitch or Williams figures out how to hit. Neither of which are incredibly promising


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PostPosted: May 30 19, 4:19 am 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
CardsofSTL wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Pretty clearly a move to inflate the value of their return for Pham (a trade that continues to not make sense) and nothing more.


If he gets lit up it's not going to inflate anything. If he pitches well then it's good for us. The Pham deal is what it is by this point. Fans hate it and always will and I don't blame anyone for that but I don't think it's fair to Cabrera to bring it up any time he gets mentioned.

I do. Cabrera clearly wasn’t ready, the best option, or even deserving of this chance. And the fo has a history of favoring prospects based on their backstory as much as their talent. Kozma, for instance wouldn’t have ever made the majors had he not been picked in the first round. Cabrera wouldn’t have been called up if Pham was batting .200 with 3 rbi.


You can believe whatever you want but that is probably one of the silliest notions I have ever read.


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PostPosted: May 30 19, 5:19 am 
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CardsofSTL wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
CardsofSTL wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Pretty clearly a move to inflate the value of their return for Pham (a trade that continues to not make sense) and nothing more.


If he gets lit up it's not going to inflate anything. If he pitches well then it's good for us. The Pham deal is what it is by this point. Fans hate it and always will and I don't blame anyone for that but I don't think it's fair to Cabrera to bring it up any time he gets mentioned.

I do. Cabrera clearly wasn’t ready, the best option, or even deserving of this chance. And the fo has a history of favoring prospects based on their backstory as much as their talent. Kozma, for instance wouldn’t have ever made the majors had he not been picked in the first round. Cabrera wouldn’t have been called up if Pham was batting .200 with 3 rbi.


You can believe whatever you want but that is probably one of the silliest notions I have ever read.

Do you have a better reason? It’s not silly it’s just a belief the front office is petty. Which may be wrong but it’s at least a position. And really the best one posted yet.


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PostPosted: May 30 19, 5:52 am 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
CardsofSTL wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
CardsofSTL wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Pretty clearly a move to inflate the value of their return for Pham (a trade that continues to not make sense) and nothing more.


If he gets lit up it's not going to inflate anything. If he pitches well then it's good for us. The Pham deal is what it is by this point. Fans hate it and always will and I don't blame anyone for that but I don't think it's fair to Cabrera to bring it up any time he gets mentioned.

I do. Cabrera clearly wasn’t ready, the best option, or even deserving of this chance. And the fo has a history of favoring prospects based on their backstory as much as their talent. Kozma, for instance wouldn’t have ever made the majors had he not been picked in the first round. Cabrera wouldn’t have been called up if Pham was batting .200 with 3 rbi.


You can believe whatever you want but that is probably one of the silliest notions I have ever read.

Do you have a better reason? It’s not silly it’s just a belief the front office is petty. Which may be wrong but it’s at least a position. And really the best one posted yet.



The idea that Pham's performance dictates what the Cardinals do with their roster is silly. As for a different reason on why they brought them up; I am not privy to their decision making but the following was reported by those that make their living reporting on what the Cardinals do:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/for-rookie-cabrera-it-begins-with-command-power-and-what/article_e7af63fd-66be-5e08-9647-5c28ddf7d445.html

Quote:

What earned Cabrera the call was his recent starts.


In back-to-back starts for Class AAA Memphis, Cabrera pitched six innings each and struck out 10 combined. More importantly, from the Cardinals’ perspective, he slashed his walk rate down to only two in those 12 innings.


He had walked 17 in his previous 27 2/3 innings.


“Probably getting back in the flow of pitching again,” said manager Mike Shildt, referencing the rust he and others in the organization thought they saw during spring training after Cabrera had spent the winter pitching in the Dominican Republic’s league. “His walk rate has improved dramatically. Steady improvement. We always like to see guys trending in the right direction.”


The Cardinals also saw how Cabrera maintained his above-average velocity deep into starts with 97-mph fastballs late, and they used information gathered by radar to compare Cabrera’s curveball to big-league curveballs for effectiveness. Cabrera’s curveball graded well, and the Cardinals feel the metrics show it will play at the majors.

“An elite pitch at this level,” Shildt said.


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PostPosted: May 30 19, 7:34 am 
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Okay, first let me say I understand this sounds like some tin-foil conspiracy thing and as such the skepticism is taken well. And, maybe the production of Pham doesn't necessarily factor into the decision making that much.

Perhaps I should have said the Cardinals FO feels pressure for Williams and Cabrera to perform well due to Pham's continued success with Tampa. No FO wants to be known for making lopsided trades in a bad way. And, if Pham continues to put up 6 win seasons for the next 3 years (which he's on pace to do this year and was on pace to do last year with TB) while the return for him isn't successful, this will go down as one of the worst trades in Cardinals history. That's not me being some hater on the internet and I'm hardly one of the bigger critics of the FO. It's just the way it is.

Perhaps, regardless of what Pham is doing, the Cardinals are high on Cabrera as they seem to be. Are they high on him because of what they saw prior to the trade, what they've seen after the trade, or most likely some combination of both? Probably the latter. They certainly seem to be doing a full court press through the media talking up his ability (citing a 1.5 BB/9 over two whole starts, awesome curveball, and maintained velo). And, while it may be there, it's yet to translate into results. So, I do question the reasoning he was chosen and high praise/puff piece by Goold.

And, lastly, this isn't just the CArdinals FO. I can't remember all the examples, and don't have time to find them all. Tyrell Jenkins comes to mind for the braves, Moretensen for the A's, etc. Prospects that get traded often times and sometimes mostly for PR get thrust into roles they don't deserve even if only for short times.


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PostPosted: June 4 19, 10:56 pm 
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Cabrera ERA now almost identical in the show as it was in AAA ball.


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PostPosted: June 5 19, 6:16 am 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Okay, first let me say I understand this sounds like some tin-foil conspiracy thing and as such the skepticism is taken well. And, maybe the production of Pham doesn't necessarily factor into the decision making that much.

Perhaps I should have said the Cardinals FO feels pressure for Williams and Cabrera to perform well due to Pham's continued success with Tampa. No FO wants to be known for making lopsided trades in a bad way. And, if Pham continues to put up 6 win seasons for the next 3 years (which he's on pace to do this year and was on pace to do last year with TB) while the return for him isn't successful, this will go down as one of the worst trades in Cardinals history. That's not me being some hater on the internet and I'm hardly one of the bigger critics of the FO. It's just the way it is.

Perhaps, regardless of what Pham is doing, the Cardinals are high on Cabrera as they seem to be. Are they high on him because of what they saw prior to the trade, what they've seen after the trade, or most likely some combination of both? Probably the latter. They certainly seem to be doing a full court press through the media talking up his ability (citing a 1.5 BB/9 over two whole starts, awesome curveball, and maintained velo). And, while it may be there, it's yet to translate into results. So, I do question the reasoning he was chosen and high praise/puff piece by Goold.

And, lastly, this isn't just the CArdinals FO. I can't remember all the examples, and don't have time to find them all. Tyrell Jenkins comes to mind for the braves, Moretensen for the A's, etc. Prospects that get traded often times and sometimes mostly for PR get thrust into roles they don't deserve even if only for short times.


I see your logic and it's something I have thought of myself. It makes sense from a performance standpoint to show a yield on a traded asset, especially on such a controversial trade. Pham had a lot of fans and the dealings/dissatisfaction was made public, so notoriety is there. Then again, it's an absurd belief if Mozeliak actually thought Cabrera would somehow find effectiveness at the MLB level after only two encouraging performances in AAA. With that in mind I'm betting they didn't expect him to come in and dominate, but perhaps to show the potential that they seem to believe in. Has he done that? Are we impressed? I do share the belief that there is an effort to show something for the Pham trade, but sadly, any attempt in this direction will appear feeble and desperate based on the reality of the circumstances. Pham was jettisoned for petty reasons, and if not, he was jettisoned due to poor valuation and poor roster management. I think it was a combination of both, which is even worse than if had been one or the other.


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