What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans?

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jagtrader
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by jagtrader »

Rieges wrote: - Unwillingness to make smaller dealers for players that may be undervalued at the time because they are convinced that their prospects are just as good if not better.
This is the one that kills them.

cardinalsx
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by cardinalsx »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
cardinalsx wrote:
TheoSqua wrote:[*] A large portion of GM success is luck, and the Cardinals luck has run out relative to the first part of Mo's tenure.
I suspect this is a bigger factor than we'd like to admit.
Jeff and Theo have had "good luck" in two orgs now?

Dombrowski had "good luck" in three orgs?
Per usual, you misread in order to set up a "take." All I said was that luck probably plays a bigger role than most admit. I never suggested--even remotely--that luck is the biggest factor in success or failure. I never suggested that Mozeliak has done as good a job as those other GMs.

I will say that all those GMs have had the luxury of teardowns and/or huge payrolls, which allows more wiggle room.

Magneto2.0
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by Magneto2.0 »

jagtrader wrote:
Rieges wrote: - Unwillingness to make smaller dealers for players that may be undervalued at the time because they are convinced that their prospects are just as good if not better.
This is the one that kills them.
My only question is how would y'all know if this is happening or not?

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BottenFieldofDreams
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by BottenFieldofDreams »

Another real problem is Mo's awful ability to manage expectations. The message for the last 5 years should have been 'Cardinals Baseball: Pray for a 2006 Situation!' but he's always talking about dry powder and being all in until he's talking about not making a deal just to make a deal.

Rieges
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by Rieges »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
jagtrader wrote:
Rieges wrote: - Unwillingness to make smaller dealers for players that may be undervalued at the time because they are convinced that their prospects are just as good if not better.
This is the one that kills them.
My only question is how would y'all know if this is happening or not?
Fair question but I base that on stories I have read over the last few years where Mo was asked about not having made moves and either the direct quote or the indication given in the story (usually from Goold) is something to effect of "we didn't find anyone available out there that we felt was better than what we have on the roster" or "we want to give so-and-so adequate playing time." It's those kind of quotes in tandem with other clubs making under-the-radar moves.

jagtrader
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by jagtrader »

Rieges wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:
jagtrader wrote:
Rieges wrote: - Unwillingness to make smaller dealers for players that may be undervalued at the time because they are convinced that their prospects are just as good if not better.
This is the one that kills them.
My only question is how would y'all know if this is happening or not?
Fair question but I base that on stories I have read over the last few years where Mo was asked about not having made moves and either the direct quote or the indication given in the story (usually from Goold) is something to effect of "we didn't find anyone available out there that we felt was better than what we have on the roster" or "we want to give so-and-so adequate playing time." It's those kind of quotes in tandem with other clubs making under-the-radar moves.
Also, they have a gaping hole in their rotation and couldn't find a single starter out there they felt was worth a flier.

Magneto2.0
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Rieges wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:
jagtrader wrote:
Rieges wrote: - Unwillingness to make smaller dealers for players that may be undervalued at the time because they are convinced that their prospects are just as good if not better.
This is the one that kills them.
My only question is how would y'all know if this is happening or not?
Fair question but I base that on stories I have read over the last few years where Mo was asked about not having made moves and either the direct quote or the indication given in the story (usually from Goold) is something to effect of "we didn't find anyone available out there that we felt was better than what we have on the roster" or "we want to give so-and-so adequate playing time." It's those kind of quotes in tandem with other clubs making under-the-radar moves.
I get you. I do think it’s much harder to determine the market as outsiders unless we’re aware of how other teams value our players. I do believe you’re probably right in your evaluation to an extent though.

Magneto2.0
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by Magneto2.0 »

jagtrader wrote:
Rieges wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:
jagtrader wrote:
Rieges wrote: - Unwillingness to make smaller dealers for players that may be undervalued at the time because they are convinced that their prospects are just as good if not better.
This is the one that kills them.
My only question is how would y'all know if this is happening or not?
Fair question but I base that on stories I have read over the last few years where Mo was asked about not having made moves and either the direct quote or the indication given in the story (usually from Goold) is something to effect of "we didn't find anyone available out there that we felt was better than what we have on the roster" or "we want to give so-and-so adequate playing time." It's those kind of quotes in tandem with other clubs making under-the-radar moves.
Also, they have a gaping hole in their rotation and couldn't find a single starter out there they felt was worth a flier.
Which I definitely feel like they should’ve addressed but what are teams asking for when it comes to
Middling starters? It’s very possible it’s much higher than we are thinking.

jagtrader
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by jagtrader »

I don't know. The Phillies added Smyly for nothing and Vargas for a Double-A catcher hitting below .200.

Sometimes you've got to throw something at the wall and hope it doesn't Wacha.

Johnconrad
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Re: What is the disconnect between Cards management and Fans

Post by Johnconrad »

They can't evaluate talent.

They're just as bad as they were the last time I was here and you guys didn't want to admit it.

You HAVE to be able to tell who can play baseball.

They consistently miss.

The latest is trading Mercado and keeping Bader.

There is a "rumor" they could have had Wheeler at the deadline, but were unwilling to part with Bader and/or O'Neill.

Any team serious about a pennant has to make that deal - especially after the inconsistency shown by both those guys.

They're not serious about a pennant.

And, they won't be until Mozo is gone.

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