Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Talk about the Cardinals minor league baseball
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Socnorb11
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by Socnorb11 »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
phins wrote:If I ever four time to do the top-21 I'd be interested in how our system looks now.

It would be interesting to see that list.

I've been saying all year that it's not as pretty on the farm as it used to be.
well....yeah, take miller wacha Rosenthal Martinez (?) Siegrist (?) Maness (?) Adams kozma (?) Off the list and the talents gonna take a big hit. Doesn't mean they're not developing players. No one believed in siegrist madness types until they appeared from nowhere.

Also, the talent hasn't disappeared. Its being put to good use.

Fair point about Siegrist and Maness.

It just worries me a bit that we're looking at Piscotty as one of our better prospects. It's great that the major league roster is beefy, but there's not much to be excited about at any of the minor league levels.

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mikechamp
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by mikechamp »

Since most of the rookies are... rookies, they're not going to see huge contracts for the next 2-3 seasons. That gives us time to draft the next generation, and we still have Wainwright, Molina, Craig, Holliday and Jaime during that time. (Not to mention Oscar, if he ever gets healthy.)

Yes, most of the big, young contributors this year are 4 years past their draft year. But remember, Wacha made it here in only a year. He's a rarity, but it can happen.

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phins
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by phins »

There are still some grinder types in the minors as well. A few starters if they reach their potential, and three or four guys who should make the majors on the mound. Lee Stoppelman is a guy who has a chance to make a "Siegrist-like" rise, though I don't mean to say that with the same level of success.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

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The Cardinals will certainly lose their spot as the consensus #1 farm this year. They graduated a lot of talent.

The fact that they won't be #1--and probably won't be top-5, and possibly won't be top-10--doesn't really matter, because like AW said there's so much young talent at the MLB level. Besides, those org rankings? If they were gospel, Kansas City would win the next 5 World Series since they had, by consensus, The Most Best Farm System In The History Of Mankind three years ago.

St. Louis' farm might be depleted, but it is in no way a White Sox type of bare. Taveras is still a blue chip prospect. There are guys like Wisdom and Piscotty and Jenkins and Carson Kelly who have the tools to take big steps forward. Charlie Tilson is a player who could blow up in 2014 and find a lot of prospect heat on him. Starlin Rodriguez could open some eyes this year. And the Cardinals have the staff in the minors to develop these players.

What they have now is less like a pre-season-2013 St. Louis farm and more like a pre-2010 St. Louis farm: full of guys like Carpenter and Craig and Freese and MMGA and Lynn and Descalso and Jay that doesn't get a lot of heat but ends up turning out useful MLB players, with maybe one or two of them making a few All-Star Games.

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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by jerbyrd25 »

Cheddar Tom wrote:
jerbyrd25 wrote:I have my doubts about Piscotty with these comparisons. He keeps getting these Allen Craig or Matt Carpenter labels, but he only OPS'd .819 on the year between A+ and AA ball with 15 home runs.

Craig, in 2007, at the same age and same levels OPS'd .909 with 24 home runs.
Not accurate at all. Craig was already 23 when he began his full season debut in Springfield - Piscotty isn't 23 until Jan. Craig did hit for more power in the FSL at the same age, though.
Carpenter, in 2010, albeit at age 24, but at the same levels OPS'd .889 with 13 home runs and a way above average walk rate.
Carpenter had a .730 OPS in the FSL. Yes he hit very well, but as you say he was 2 years older. Piscotty homered once every 30 at bats while Carpenter homered once every 33 at bats in Springfield.
Piscotty is an outfielder now as well, meaning he should bring a bigger stick than either of these two, who, at the time, were still looked at prospect-wise as third basemen.
Yes I would agree that he needs to add power, but if he's a high avg. doubles hitter with above average defense then he's a valuable player.
Comparitively, Greg Garcia, at the same age and level (AA-Springfield) had an .828 OPS and 10 home runs.
You are still being misleading...Piscotty played a 1/2 season at Springfield. He took 184 at bats and hit 6 home runs where as Garcia took 412 at bats to hit 10 home runs.
Brett Wallace, a "polished college bat", at age 22, spent the year at Springfield, Memphis, and AAA-Sacremento (after the trade for Holliday) and he ended the year with an .822 OPS and 20 home runs.


I don't get what this example is supposed to prove.
Zack Cox, also a "polished college bat", at age 22, was in the same levels as Piscotty and had a .797 OPS with 13 home runs.

Just my opinion. These aren't all fair comparisons by any means. I still like him, of course, as he is in some rareified air with comparisons to these first two. I think he is just a tick below.
Yes...it is not as simple as saying "here is what Zack Cox did and here is what Matt Carpenter did." Not all players perform the same and some develop differently. Right now there is really no reason to be down on Piscotty. Piscotty at this point appears to have much better plate judgment than Cox did

Not accurate? Misleading? If someone is going to compare Piscotty to those that came before him, then they should be scrutinized. Garcia/Carpenter/Wallace/Cox/Craig all had better looking offensive seasons around that age and/or level than Piscotty. Are they all better prospects with similar pedigrees? Of course not. I do like Piscotty and I think he is in an elite group as it is with these other players. Some of them worked out, some didn't.

I really do think he may be good one day. Piscotty, as both of us have noted, is very good at keeping his K's low. He will undoubtable be a big part of our future, but I still have my doubts.

Socnorb11
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by Socnorb11 »

33anda3rd wrote:The Cardinals will certainly lose their spot as the consensus #1 farm this year. They graduated a lot of talent.

The fact that they won't be #1--and probably won't be top-5, and possibly won't be top-10--doesn't really matter, because like AW said there's so much young talent at the MLB level. Besides, those org rankings? If they were gospel, Kansas City would win the next 5 World Series since they had, by consensus, The Most Best Farm System In The History Of Mankind three years ago.

St. Louis' farm might be depleted, but it is in no way a White Sox type of bare. Taveras is still a blue chip prospect. There are guys like Wisdom and Piscotty and Jenkins and Carson Kelly who have the tools to take big steps forward. Charlie Tilson is a player who could blow up in 2014 and find a lot of prospect heat on him. Starlin Rodriguez could open some eyes this year. And the Cardinals have the staff in the minors to develop these players.

What they have now is less like a pre-season-2013 St. Louis farm and more like a pre-2010 St. Louis farm: full of guys like Carpenter and Craig and Freese and MMGA and Lynn and Descalso and Jay that doesn't get a lot of heat but ends up turning out useful MLB players, with maybe one or two of them making a few All-Star Games.

Good post. I'm not sure how I'd forgotten about Taveras, for crying out loud.

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer. I appreciate the dialogue with regard to the current state of the farm system.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by 33anda3rd »

DISCLAIMER: THE ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE IS A HITTERS' PARADISE, TYPICALLY FEATURING LOWER-CALIBER PITCHING TALENT.

First 34 PA in the AFL Piscotty is 414/471/621 with 5 steals and 0 caught. Two doubles, two triples.

First 27 PA there Ramsey is 364/444/591 with three steals and 0 caught. 2 doubles and a bomb.

On the non-Cards front, the guy everybody's buzzing about is.....

http://vimeo.com/77383663

The first one was ruled a ground rule double, which is hilarious. The second one goes over the hill behind the wall and the LF doesn't even bother moving. The oppo job in the third PA shows a good dose of #rig. This kid is ridiculous.

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mikechamp
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by mikechamp »

Bryant drops the bat head on the ball well, but looks like he could be vulnerable up and in.

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JoeMcKim
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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by JoeMcKim »

You also have guys just drafted last year that we haven't really gotten an extended chance to see how good they are.

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Re: Miscellaneous Cardinals minor league notes

Post by jim »

mikechamp wrote:Bryant drops the bat head on the ball well, but looks like he could be vulnerable up and in.
I agree mike, I think you could bust him inside and he might have some trouble. At least that's what I would to try to do. Actually what I would do is take the plate away from him, he's way to cozy in there.

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