General Soccer Thread

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themiddle54
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by themiddle54 »

Yeah, I hear you, but I've been hearing for like 3 World Cup cycles that our youth system is getting better. I believed it 10 years ago but am losing faith as the USMNT continues to struggle to deliver a result. I'll be back to believing when we're getting the results we were getting 15 years ago, finishing ahead of Portugal in the group stage, knocking Mexico out of the round of 16 and coming thisclose to getting to PK against Germany, losing on a BS call. We've reportedly come a long way in producing talent but we seem to have taken a big step back in getting results on the pitch.

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thrill
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Re: General Soccer Thread

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themiddle54 wrote:Yeah, I hear you, but I've been hearing for like 3 World Cup cycles that our youth system is getting better. I believed it 10 years ago but am losing faith as the USMNT continues to struggle to deliver a result. I'll be back to believing when we're getting the results we were getting 15 years ago, finishing ahead of Portugal in the group stage, knocking Mexico out of the round of 16 and coming thisclose to getting to PK against Germany, losing on a BS call. We've reportedly come a long way in producing talent but we seem to have taken a big step back in getting results on the pitch.
Oh I hear you too. I really, really hear you. This is why what I posted earlier is so maddening. We have both taken a giant step back in results since then and also, we haven't. The only World Cup where we've failed to live up to that '02 level is '06 in which we were legitimately bad and seemed listless and over confident (hmm, a bruce arena team looking like that? you don't say). Everything else actually is pretty much the same level with a few random bounces or more difficult draws here and there.

I think the great sin of US Soccer isn't regression, it's complacency. The women have done this too, but our head start on the world was so great that we still win world cups, even as everyone else catches up. I think we can conclude that CONCACAF is getting better below the US and Mexico and that's been a long time coming. Costa Rica got to the quarter finals in Brazil. Honduras has been consistent.

The best reason I can give you to stay engaged with the US men is pretty simple. Borussia Dortmund, Manchester City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester United, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Liverpool, Monterrey, Roma, Villareal, Ajax, Benfica, Barcelona, Schalke, Werder Bremen, Paris Saint-Germain.

These are some of the clubs that are currently playing US internationals at various levels off the top of my head. There are many more big clubs out there that I can't recall. That's not including the many MLS homegrown products. Many of these players will not be stars for the senior teams at those clubs, but when our country produces players that clubs like those view as resources and investments when it has never really done that in the past, I think we're heading in the right direction, generally speaking.

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themiddle54
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Re: General Soccer Thread

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That's a great point re direction and talent migrating to Europe. I think continuing to build relationships and partnerships with clubs like Man City helps. Man City isn't going to identify talent on a pitch in Cleveland or Houston but US scouts for MLS clubs can, and those clubs can develop those kids and help funnel them to places like those you mentioned to ensure our national players become the best they can. That hurts for MLS, when our players like Pulisic end up in Germany and not MLS, but it is what's best for the player and if there is a business partnership between MLS clubs and Euro clubs there is a synergy there that helps to not take all the wind out of MLS's sail.

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themiddle54
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Re: General Soccer Thread

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Side note: are Twellman's suit jackets always a size or two too small as a (bad) fashion choice, or did he go into Hulk mode and almost burst out of the one in that vid that's going viral?

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Re: General Soccer Thread

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MLS will benefit more financially from returning 30 year old Christian Pulisic dominating for 4-5 years with the Philly Union or whatever than they would from 14-15 years of Christian Pulisic as Landon Donovan 2.0. I love MLS. I ride for MLS. I also know it's weird and bad. I know they have ambition to be big time and maybe they will be someday, but I doubt it. The way countries like Brazil compensate for challenges in player development and identifying talent is by making s loads of cash selling young players, and that's what the US will need to do before MLS can compete with the big leagues for dollars and eyes. I think the ideal scenario is 17-21 year old stars for hometown MLS club. MLS sells for $20-50 million. Player wins many trophies and recognition. Player returns at 30-32 to close out career with hometown MLS club. That's not too different from 99% of clubs in the world, even clubs in the EPL or La Liga. Wayne Rooney stars at Everton. Spends his prime at United. Winds down at Everton. The natural order of the global superstar.

Twellman always played in painted on jerseys so I guess it's not surprising that he sizes down his jackets.

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Re: General Soccer Thread

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Apparently there is talk that the US might be able to appeal the results of the game in Panama City last night with regards to the goal that shouldn't have been a goal. I'll be ticked if they do file an appeal. They only had to win last night and they failed. Being babies and appealing to get into the World Cup would just be embarrassing as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: General Soccer Thread

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Just want to let you both know, I really liked reading this conversation and the insight.

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thrill
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Re: General Soccer Thread

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tlombard wrote:Apparently there is talk that the US might be able to appeal the results of the game in Panama City last night with regards to the goal that shouldn't have been a goal. I'll be ticked if they do file an appeal. They only had to win last night and they failed. Being babies and appealing to get into the World Cup would just be embarrassing as far as I'm concerned.
I don't know if they can, but I've been happy about how no one has made a big deal about it, because like you said, they failed.
TimeForGuinness wrote:Just want to let you both know, I really liked reading this conversation and the insight.
Last night I didn't want to even think about it and thought I'd need a few days before I wanted to talk about it, but then I got to work and it's all I want to talk about haha. It's cathartic. I didn't think sports could still do this to me, but turns out: it totally can. Feels like a gut punch.

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themiddle54
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Re: General Soccer Thread

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Thrill, on the bright side you're not an Englishman emotionally invested in your national team for the last three decades.

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Re: General Soccer Thread

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TimeForGuinness wrote:Twellman nails it
http://www.espnfc.us/video/latest-video ... eo/3226307
I saw the longer version of that, and someone else's (usfans ?) rant. I understand they are mad, but not much on specifics of what is wrong- other than, well, losing. Lots of Bernie-esque ire there over people in internet chat rooms. still an enjoyable rant.
------------
This is a lay person observation - seems like there's a lot of anger and blame of The Man (be it JK, or Arena or mgmt) - but even Twellman there hesitates to blame actual players. I'm not on the US soccer fansites, but seems like fans have some level of a soccer background and relate/or empathize with the players. I may be just not looking in right places, but I don't hear the fans rip on individual players like they do in other sports. Likewise, I wonder if management has cold objectivity with roster and lineup. Granted, you don't have the wealth of stats and metrics like in BB FB. Even normal physical #s, (40time, height, weight etc) are outweighed by subjectives - Messi

Also, maybe this guy has a point Why the U.S. team doesn't need 'better athletes' to win a World Cup It's like USMT just keeps hoping to reach a critical mass of athletic talent and win. Sure, development. But comes a time you have to play the game with what you have , like T & T did to beat you.

Anyways, just rambling - don't know wth I'm talking about. Tough that WC is unlike other sports, there is no next year.
Last edited by Freed Roger on October 11 17, 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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