General Soccer Thread

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Gashouse
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by Gashouse »

tlombard wrote:Apparently there is talk that the US might be able to appeal the results of the game in Panama City last night with regards to the goal that shouldn't have been a goal. I'll be ticked if they do file an appeal. They only had to win last night and they failed. Being babies and appealing to get into the World Cup would just be embarrassing as far as I'm concerned.
Agree that they shouldn't appeal. They look bad enough as it as for poor play. No reason to be crybaby sore losers.

I also read that only the teams included in the game itself can appeal. If true, then if Costa Rica doesn't appeal, then it's over. Not sure why Costa Rica would be motivated to appeal. Also, a successful appeal means Panama loses out on their first WC and the US squeaks into the playoff they probably don't deserve to be in and may be less motivated to do real soul searching. Lose-lose.

I also appreciate the discussion above.

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themiddle54
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by themiddle54 »

I think ultimately the players need to take the lion's share of the blame. Go out and handle your business against a team from a country that could fit into Iowa and you move on. They didn't.

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Tim
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by Tim »

thrill wrote:It's happening. The last 7 years made a lot of progress, mostly because of MLS. The players are coming through. Pulisic is the tip of the spear. He might be the best we produce, but the next generation is the best we've ever had and there's no reason to see that progress stop.
I don't know the first thing about soccer and I don't think I've ever watched a full soccer match, so it is quite possible you are telling me the truth.

But this is the same thing my college roommate who was on our college soccer team was telling me...

.... in 2002.

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Tim
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by Tim »

themiddle54 wrote:Yeah, I hear you, but I've been hearing for like 3 World Cup cycles that our youth system is getting better.
I suppose I could have just finished reading the thread before commenting.

My bad.

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BottenFieldofDreams
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by BottenFieldofDreams »

My perspective here is unique but also very limited, being MLS only, and a team guy at that, outside of maybe a quarter of the leagues nat'l t.v. games (maybe next year I'll get the league pass). I don't really care much about the National Team, and even Timbers fans will tell me that's the point of all of it and I am a huge part of the problem (soccer fans being the most sanctimonious people on earth). It is a very weird league as thrill said. For example, I honestly have no idea if the Timbers coach is good. The season feels decades long the way teams go in and out of form and it is the opposite of Durant's NBA wrt parity. Over in Europe teams may go into bad form for a few weeks, but they're still playing Snaggletoothshire City FC two out of every three weeks. There is a huge middle tier in MLS, and almost everyone is in it.

But it seems to me if perhaps it's near it's plateau (I'm personally not sure), MLS has never been better. The civic excitement and yearning for expansion teams is pretty impressive and so far hasn't proven fad-y. In '02, and '06, there wasn't a 20 year-long wait list for MLS season tickets (literally. Early adopters ftw.) in Portland or anywhere else. There weren't 60k watching in Orlando, Atlanta, and 40k in Cincinnati for some reason. In '10 it was just Seattle, right?

Our greatest WC was '02 (right?)--also a year that MLS contracted. So maybe MLS 1.0 did nothing for the Nat'l team, but it seems like the benefits of MLS 2.0 which started the time Seattle and Phily joined the league and/or shortly after, wouldn't be paying off yet. College soccer is still getting it's hooks into talented players--though I believe that is waning a bit. It also took the Timbers five years to really develop a decent structure for their academy. I actually think there would be a little hope in MLS for national soccer. And beyond: lots of babies that won't be playing football, or maybe even basketball because off AAU nonsense (though that might be a stretch). Sports specialization is also a relatively new phenomenon that's going to be a boon to the acadmies. Seems like new leadership could lube this thing up real well.

I know the point here is that there has always been this kind of hope to point to wrt American soccer. But as a guy who, again, rarely and very minimally engages with the USMNT (though I am bummed for Nagbe and Villafana, and I try to watch all the US WC games) I kind of see plenty of reasons to be optimistic.

One other thing: I had serious doubts--but video replay in MLS has been great.

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thrill
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by thrill »

Freed Roger wrote: I'm not on the US soccer fansites, but seems like fans have some level of a soccer background and relate/or empathize with the players. I may be just not looking in right places, but I don't hear the fans rip on individual players like they do in other sports.
You're dead on. There is tons of ripping, fairly and unfairly, but it's weirdly paternalistic. It's like the "only I can pick on my little brother, not you" mentality, so if you've never illegally streamed a U-20 qualifier vs Barbados online at work or if you don't remember Clint Mathis scoring a goal for Hannover and running over to his coach pointing at his watch saying he needs more PT, you don't get to comment on whether or not Michael Bradley is overrated.

Here's why: our national team isn't as competitive for spots as big national teams. The reason for that is a lack of higher end talent in the player pool. Because of that lack of depth, players like Michael Bradley and guys who came before him like Cobi Jones or Tab Ramos - players who were really, really good compared to their american counterparts - never seriously have to worry about their spot in the lineup. That consistency isn't all bad though. Before Jurgen came along, that consistency bred teams that were more organized and experienced than a lot of the more talented teams they played and that led to us often punching above our weight. Especially against Mexico and in World Cups. Fans grow comfortable with that familiarity. One thing I really liked about the national team that Jurgen really stomped all over and made me turn on him was that going into any given game, I could predict the lineup and the result with more accuracy than any other team I love. There was a comfort in that. You could prepare yourself for losses, take the wins as they came, and get really excited at the big moments when they exceeded your expectations. It was a fun, steady team. But that comfort combined with the apathy of the general sports fan public at large probably isn't good for the continued improvement of the program, and missing out on the world cup is the kind of inexcusable [expletive] up that will get rid of it for good. You only get a pat on the back when you lose to teams you're supposed to lose to when you always beat the teams you're supposed to beat. Until 2015, they did that with incredible consistency. Losing at home to Costa Rica and Mexico is just two games, but it's the difference between comfortable qualification and a continuation of the status quo and where we find ourselves now. Just two games, but it makes all the difference with the amount of money on the line for the players, federation, and the entire pyramid of american soccer that ends with MLS and the national team on top.

This is a good breakdown of what happened, why, and what's next. This site is my first daily visit (sorry grb) and it's a must for people who want to dive deep on American soccer:
http://www.americansoccernow.com/articl ... next-steps

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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by tlombard »

Gashouse wrote:I also read that only the teams included in the game itself can appeal. If true, then if Costa Rica doesn't appeal, then it's over.
They way the rule read in the article I saw stated that only teams impacted by the decision could appeal. Of course that leads to how you define what teams are impacted. Just the teams that played the game? A team that lost something because of the result? And there is also the question of whether the rule was accurately quoted by the person writing the article and that wasn't just their hopeful interpretation.

Thankfully I haven't heard any more talk about an appeal so hopefully the idea is completely dead.

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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by Fat Strat »

thrill wrote:This is a good breakdown of what happened, why, and what's next. This site is my first daily visit (sorry grb) and it's a must for people who want to dive deep on American soccer:
http://www.americansoccernow.com/articl ... next-steps
I found the part about the generation gap very interesting. That is a time period where we should have developed some really good players. Wood and Yedlin will likely be USMNT mainstays. Nagbe probably continues to get looks. But 3-4 players from that era look like they will be regular selections. Maybe Jonathan Brooks belongs in there, too? You think about the generation or two before and you find players all over the field for the national team. It would be fascinating to trace it all the way down and find out what went wrong. I love how they captioned that section with a picture of Brek Shea. Perfect example of what that era produced.

The rest of it sounds good but is completely beyond my knowledge level. It does seem like the younger squads have been performing well and now, unfortunately, those players have the time to mature together with nothing in their way. At this point, we might as well let the kids play and play together. A lot.

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go birds
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by go birds »

Bruce arena out as coach of the USMNT

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: General Soccer Thread

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Good riddance.

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