NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

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stlouie_lipp
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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by stlouie_lipp »

JL21 wrote:Yeah, I don't really disagree that they could have chosen a better pass play.

Even still, Wilson's a pretty reliable guy when it comes to taking care of the ball. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to throw that pass in a way that only his guy catches it or it's incomplete. Risky, sure, but I don't think an unreasonable risk. Carroll didn't help his case much by referring to it as a wasted play or whatever, and I don't want to defend that douchebag any more than I feel comfortable with.

Deadspin had a good write-up about the Pats and their anticipation of the play. Butler had seen it in practice.

I also thought this was pretty telling- I saw it on Twitter. This is what Russell Wilson saw:

Image
Look at Browner stuffing Baldwin at the line and not letting him get a true pick on Butler allowing him to jump that route.

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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by lukethedrifter »

Lockette didn't sell anything other than the route he was running and the kid jumped it. Which of course can be put back on Carroll.

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obucard
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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by obucard »

Then again, if the play works then everyone is calling Carroll a genius for passing when everyone was expecting a rush.

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pioneer98
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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by pioneer98 »

I agree it was a great play by the defense...but again, to me this is one of those "put your players in the best position to succeed". Throwing in the middle of the field makes a deflected pass a lot more likely...to say nothing of a great defensive play being more likely. Below is the kind of play I had in mind. Throw the ball to a place where the receiver either makes a great catch or the ball is overthrown and goes harmlessly out of bounds. Carroll himself said he was trying to kind of "waste that play" to run on 3rd down. Waste the play by throwing the ball out of bounds then.


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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by dmarx114 »

Carroll said "waste a play". But he's not being honest. No one would ever give up 1 of their 3 attempts to score a TD in that spot.

"Waste a play" really meant "throw a pass".

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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by dmarx114 »

Carroll also said that he didn't want to run on 2nd down because the Pats had their goal line defense in, yet would have run on 3rd and 4th down. Does he think the Pats were getting out of their goal line defense on those 2 plays? Of course not.

None of his explanations post game made sense.

Even though the pass did make sense.

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Jocephus
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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by Jocephus »

this may have been posted before but cameron tries to compare its baseball equivalent

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-base ... yard-line/

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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by Socnorb11 »

dmarx114 wrote:Carroll also said that he didn't want to run on 2nd down because the Pats had their goal line defense in, yet would have run on 3rd and 4th down. Does he think the Pats were getting out of their goal line defense on those 2 plays? Of course not.

None of his explanations post game made sense.

Even though the pass did make sense.

I think "other plays" might have made sense.

Taht particular pass didn't make much sense there, in my opinion.

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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by dmarx114 »

Socnorb11 wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:Carroll also said that he didn't want to run on 2nd down because the Pats had their goal line defense in, yet would have run on 3rd and 4th down. Does he think the Pats were getting out of their goal line defense on those 2 plays? Of course not.

None of his explanations post game made sense.

Even though the pass did make sense.

I think "other plays" might have made sense.

Taht particular pass didn't make much sense there, in my opinion.
Completely agree.

The whole point of passing on 2nd down was to keep the Pats on their toes and not allow them to sell out against the run or pass. But Butler said once he saw 3 receivers, he knew it was going to be a pass, and sold out to stop the most likely type of pass.

2-3 tight ends with a play action pass to one of those tight ends was the play that needed to be run. You use Lynch as a true decoy, and freeze the linebackers.

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Re: NFL Playoffs 2015/Super Bowl XVIX

Post by Freed Roger »

stlouie_lipp wrote:
JL21 wrote:Yeah, I don't really disagree that they could have chosen a better pass play.

Even still, Wilson's a pretty reliable guy when it comes to taking care of the ball. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to throw that pass in a way that only his guy catches it or it's incomplete. Risky, sure, but I don't think an unreasonable risk. Carroll didn't help his case much by referring to it as a wasted play or whatever, and I don't want to defend that douchebag any more than I feel comfortable with.

Deadspin had a good write-up about the Pats and their anticipation of the play. Butler had seen it in practice.

I also thought this was pretty telling- I saw it on Twitter. This is what Russell Wilson saw:

Image
Look at Browner stuffing Baldwin at the line and not letting him get a true pick on Butler allowing him to jump that route.
yeah, good point. That's Kearse getting stuffed. If Kearse puts just a bit more effort out, Butler has to alter his route.

hate to admit, but this is classic Bellicheck DB play. Rams fans know it all too well. stuff the receivers, push the envelope with checking them downfield (especially with post-season officiating). And an offensive counter move is via stacked WRs and picks, only Kearse didn't get the job done.

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