Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

A forum for non-baseball sports
Freed Roger
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress
Posts: 26227
Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Location: St. Louis

Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by Freed Roger »

Twas thinking about this in regards to SB thread and people putting that play call in baseball terms.

I'll go with Pro Football, College FB, then MLB.

I left basketball hockey and soccer out, because I can't claim to know [expletive] about it.

In college FB, you can argue that recruiting, build a program makes HC more important there. But that stuff is boring, and not really the game itself. Pro football gets the nod -with the parity and cap and involvement with every play.

dmarx114
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 24006
Joined: December 20 07, 2:45 pm

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by dmarx114 »

It's much more important to have a good coach in college sports than pro sports since the coach needs to recruit players in addition to manage a game (as you suggest).

That said, I think coaching matters most in the NFL amongst pro sports, followed by the NBA and then MLB.

Socnorb11
The Last Word
Posts: 21588
Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by Socnorb11 »

I think you're right on the money, Freed.

I've often wondered if Tom Brady's success was largely a part of Bellichick's system. I mean, Matt Cassell went 11-5 for the Patriots when he was throw into the fire (when Brady got injured), and that was without any real first team reps prior to that).

Not saying that Brady isn't a great quarterback, but it would have been interesting at some point to see him play for someone else.

User avatar
pioneer98
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 22250
Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Location: High A Minors

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by pioneer98 »

I'd agree that NCAA football is the answer if you include the recruiting angle. If you don't include that angle, then it is probably NFL football. I'm up in the air on the NBA vs MLB. The two are just so different. I think the coach/manager is very important in both but for different reasons.

Another angle to consider: minor league coaches. In the minors, coaches are involved in all the decisions just like their MLB counterparts. But mainly they have a group of kids that needs all kinds of help outside of the game, too. Kids on their own for the first time, maybe from another country, maybe don't speak English. But still kids that some team might have lots of money invested in. The coach has to be kind of a father figure and also has to teach them the sport. How good a job the coach does can have a huge impact on their careers. Coaches in MLB might have 8 or 10 players that still need developing. In the minors it is the whole team, and the roster turns over like crazy.

In minor league and junior hockey, you have all that same stuff going on, but very often the head coach is also the GM and is responsible for recruiting, too. Laugh if you will but winning and losing does matter in minor league/junior hockey (definitely more than minor league baseball, but admittedly less than major league sports). Hockey coaches can develop a reputation for the type of players they are good at developing, just like NCAA football coaches or NCAA basketball coaches (goalies should go play for Coach X while D-men probably want to play for Coach Y). And just like the NCAA, there is often shady recruiting crap going on behind the scenes.

User avatar
33anda3rd
Replies Authoritatively
Posts: 8418
Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by 33anda3rd »

It has to be NFL. NBA and NHL and even soccer are so free-flowing and so open to the athletic imaginations and whims of great players, I think coaching becomes less important. MLB is mostly mano-a-mano and the player who is either better or is the one to not make a mistake wins the individual battle. An NFL team, someone has to draw up the plays in his office, drill them at practice, and call them during the game, otherwise there's no coordination between the 11 moving parts of the team.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
"I could totally eat a pig butt, if smoked correctly!"
Posts: 27273
Joined: August 5 08, 11:24 am
Location: Thinking of the Children

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Right, if you're talking the X and O part of the game, no doubt it's the NFL. They practice all week, week in and week out, and the coaches spend countless hours drawing up countless plays to drill countless times in that week. In NCAAF, they are limited to 20 hours of practice; the amount of plays and drills you can come up with is limited week to week.

Of course, NCAAF coaches are responsible for recruiting which makes up that time difference b/w the NFL and NCAAF regarding dreaming up and implementing plays.

I'd say, overall, coaches matter most in NCAAF because they have to get the horses that will make them physically better than other teams. The best X and O coach in the world isn't going to have a chance against even a mediocre X and O coach in the NCAA if the athletes for the mediocre coach are in another class.

User avatar
33anda3rd
Replies Authoritatively
Posts: 8418
Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by 33anda3rd »

w/r/t recruiting, how do you argue with Coach Cal getting some of the best talent in the country to come to Kentucky to essentially play part-time? HIs 2013 class was probably the best since the Fab 5. He pulled Wall, Nerlens, Anthony Davis in a span of like 5 years or so, brining like 15 5-star kids in over that span. He's a talent magnet and his recruiting edge gives him a competitive edge every year.

Same with Coach K, to a lesser extent.

I'd give the same edge to elite college football coaches that I described above--it's more about X and O and drawing up plays and drilling them. I don't think elite college recruiting is > elite college basketball recruiting. Maybe the opposite.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
"I could totally eat a pig butt, if smoked correctly!"
Posts: 27273
Joined: August 5 08, 11:24 am
Location: Thinking of the Children

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

33anda3rd wrote:w/r/t recruiting, how do you argue with Coach Cal getting some of the best talent in the country to come to Kentucky to essentially play part-time? HIs 2013 class was probably the best since the Fab 5. He pulled Wall, Nerlens, Anthony Davis in a span of like 5 years or so, brining like 15 5-star kids in over that span. He's a talent magnet and his recruiting edge gives him a competitive edge every year.

Same with Coach K, to a lesser extent.

I'd give the same edge to elite college football coaches that I described above--it's more about X and O and drawing up plays and drilling them. I don't think elite college recruiting is > elite college basketball recruiting. Maybe the opposite.
Good point, I agree. I didn't even consider NCAAM for some reason.

Freed Roger
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress
Posts: 26227
Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Location: St. Louis

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by Freed Roger »

Yeah, with the recruiting element -college and pro is kind of apples oranges comparison.

Though Ron Zook demonstrated you can still be a bad enough practice/Xs & Os coach to overcome your good recruiting skills.

User avatar
33anda3rd
Replies Authoritatively
Posts: 8418
Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Coaches-in what sport do they matter most?

Post by 33anda3rd »

College you gotta recruit by the coach. Pro, you're recruiting from the owner's pocketbook. Most money wins with pros. College it's who is gonna get me the best draft position in 1-3 years.

Anyway, recruiting being = in college, I'll take a football coach as being more value, college or pro, over other sports, any time.

Post Reply