2016-17 NBA Season

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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cardsfansince82 wrote:
MrCrowesGarden wrote:Why would you admit this without prodding?
It's been reported that the Kings owner really loves Hield. It's possible they got a better offer from say the Lakers, but they didn't want to make a close rival better and said no. Then said yes to the worse offer with Hield in it and the Pelicans as the other team. It could all be spin and Divac is just an idiot, or maybe the owner is the idiot and Divac is trying to salvage his own reputation expecting to get fired anyway.
Yeah I knew Sacto loves Hield and has since the draft. I know the deal isn't getting done without him, and it's been reported the Pelicans offer to Philly for Okafor was basically the same as the one that gave Boogie... but with Hield added.

Also saw they wanted Ingram from the Lakers but Lakers said no.

If Buddy is your guy, that's fine. It's a little weird, but just say that. Saying you had a better offer but didn't take it... I'm still trying to follow.

Anyhow, my trip to New Orleans next month just got a little more interesting. Going to the game vs the Blazers. It was supposed to be Bahamas night but I wonder if that's changed.

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themiddle54
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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MrCrowesGarden wrote:If Buddy is your guy, that's fine. It's a little weird, but just say that. Saying you had a better offer but didn't take it... I'm still trying to follow.
There's a good chance that the owner, enamored for some reason with an old rookie who has been good but inconsistent this year, forced Vlade to make this move and Vlade was airing out dirty laundry in a way to the press: "I had a better offer two days ago. Goddammit, boss, we could have done better."

I do think that Vlade and the owner were on the same page that they needed to end the Boogie Era. In his presser yesterday Vlade responded to a lot of questions (like: "Did the technicals and the issues with refs and teammates impact your decision to trade Cousins?") with "we needed a change in the culture here." He mentioned changing the culture several times when pressed for specifics.

This is one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history, and I really don't get it on it's face. It's entirely possible that Boogie was a big clubhouse cancer, and that this was well-known throughout the league and dragged his trade value down to point that to us in the public we're like "Just that? For Boogie?" whereas a rival GM might go "Not a bad haul for Boogie." I guess that's possible. But the reality is that the owner has said that he thinks Hield has Curry-like potential and is willing to build an actual, real NBA basketball team around....Buddy Hield? Heaven help Kings fans the next, like, 18 years.

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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I suppose that's possible. And the owner absolutely isn't doing Buddy any favors by setting the bar at Steph. If he's a poor man's Kevin Martin, he's had a good career. I do wish him well, though. Fun to watch when he gets on one of his hot streaks.

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themiddle54
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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How many of their last 25 games do the Kings win? Their big situation goes from Boogie, with Koufos and Cauley-Stein filling in, to Koufos presumably starting but Cauley-Stein getting most of the run. And Willie's a guy whose best game was like 14/5/5 in 30 minutes the night Boogie was suspended for technical #16, and who is only efficient on offense when he's right under the rim. The offense ran through Boogie and Gay, then Gay went down and Boogie's usage was insane--38.4% so far in February. That's going to mean a lot of touches for players, and positions, that didn't get that much usage, and without a central stretch big to run everything through I'd guess they'll be in disarray for at least a half dozen games while they figure out how to play with this blend. It's gonna be ugly.

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Tim
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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LOLakers

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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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Socnorb11
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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themiddle54 wrote:How many of their last 25 games do the Kings win? Their big situation goes from Boogie, with Koufos and Cauley-Stein filling in, to Koufos presumably starting but Cauley-Stein getting most of the run. And Willie's a guy whose best game was like 14/5/5 in 30 minutes the night Boogie was suspended for technical #16, and who is only efficient on offense when he's right under the rim. The offense ran through Boogie and Gay, then Gay went down and Boogie's usage was insane--38.4% so far in February. That's going to mean a lot of touches for players, and positions, that didn't get that much usage, and without a central stretch big to run everything through I'd guess they'll be in disarray for at least a half dozen games while they figure out how to play with this blend. It's gonna be ugly.

I think that's the idea. They want to lose as many games as possible. They traded a top-10 protected pick to the Sixers several years ago.......... and they want to hold onto that pick.

As for the Pelicans, I'm not sure how much this helps them. They might be able to slip into the 8th slot in the west now (although I don't think that's a given by any means), which means they would get served up to the Warriors in round 1, and move back several slots in the draft. Next year they'll be a little better, but not good enough in the west, and then Boogie is likely gone.

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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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Socnorb11 wrote:
themiddle54 wrote:How many of their last 25 games do the Kings win? Their big situation goes from Boogie, with Koufos and Cauley-Stein filling in, to Koufos presumably starting but Cauley-Stein getting most of the run. And Willie's a guy whose best game was like 14/5/5 in 30 minutes the night Boogie was suspended for technical #16, and who is only efficient on offense when he's right under the rim. The offense ran through Boogie and Gay, then Gay went down and Boogie's usage was insane--38.4% so far in February. That's going to mean a lot of touches for players, and positions, that didn't get that much usage, and without a central stretch big to run everything through I'd guess they'll be in disarray for at least a half dozen games while they figure out how to play with this blend. It's gonna be ugly.

I think that's the idea. They want to lose as many games as possible. They traded a top-10 protected pick to the Sixers several years ago.......... and they want to hold onto that pick.

As for the Pelicans, I'm not sure how much this helps them. They might be able to slip into the 8th slot in the west now (although I don't think that's a given by any means), which means they would get served up to the Warriors in round 1, and move back several slots in the draft. Next year they'll be a little better, but not good enough in the west, and then Boogie is likely gone.
Actually the Sixers have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year, so it doesn't benefit them any to race to the bottom.

As for the Pels, you gotta take a chance at some point. Free agents haven't come here to sign, so your best hope is to trade and convince them there's something they like enough to come back. And if Boogie doesn't mesh, you try and trade him at the deadline next season. It's absolutely a gamble, but they're stuck in purgatory as it is. I have no idea if this will work, but I'd rather take a shot at getting the 8th seed (which I agree isn't a guarantee) and getting waxed by Golden State and giving the Kings Hield and a pick somewhere in the 12-18 range than picking 8th or 9th again and running it back.

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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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MrCrowesGarden wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
themiddle54 wrote:How many of their last 25 games do the Kings win? Their big situation goes from Boogie, with Koufos and Cauley-Stein filling in, to Koufos presumably starting but Cauley-Stein getting most of the run. And Willie's a guy whose best game was like 14/5/5 in 30 minutes the night Boogie was suspended for technical #16, and who is only efficient on offense when he's right under the rim. The offense ran through Boogie and Gay, then Gay went down and Boogie's usage was insane--38.4% so far in February. That's going to mean a lot of touches for players, and positions, that didn't get that much usage, and without a central stretch big to run everything through I'd guess they'll be in disarray for at least a half dozen games while they figure out how to play with this blend. It's gonna be ugly.

I think that's the idea. They want to lose as many games as possible. They traded a top-10 protected pick to the Sixers several years ago.......... and they want to hold onto that pick.

As for the Pelicans, I'm not sure how much this helps them. They might be able to slip into the 8th slot in the west now (although I don't think that's a given by any means), which means they would get served up to the Warriors in round 1, and move back several slots in the draft. Next year they'll be a little better, but not good enough in the west, and then Boogie is likely gone.
Actually the Sixers have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year, so it doesn't benefit them any to race to the bottom.

As for the Pels, you gotta take a chance at some point. Free agents haven't come here to sign, so your best hope is to trade and convince them there's something they like enough to come back. And if Boogie doesn't mesh, you try and trade him at the deadline next season. It's absolutely a gamble, but they're stuck in purgatory as it is. I have no idea if this will work, but I'd rather take a shot at getting the 8th seed (which I agree isn't a guarantee) and getting waxed by Golden State and giving the Kings Hield and a pick somewhere in the 12-18 range than picking 8th or 9th again and running it back.
Sorry, the Kings top-10 protected pick goes to the Bulls. Swapping with the Sixers won't hurt them. Losing that pick to the Bulls would. So there is an advantage to them having a top 10 pick.

The thing is, if the Pelicans had waited 1 more year, then maybe they can sign Cousins, and they could have kept Hield.

I'm not saying it was a bad deal for the Pelicans. They'll be fun to watch. I just don't think it's "the worst trade in the history of basketball".

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

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It could hurt the Kings if they plummet. I don't know if there's any other sport where the talent is concentrated so much at the top as the NBA.

I also don't know that the Pelicans have the benefit of hoping to beat somebody out in free agency. They haven't got that reputation yet. They're doing what I think we've seen the Cardinals do before: trade for a guy, get a few months to a year and a half to make your recruiting pitch, and hope he re-signs from there. It may not work, but I feel confident in saying they'd have no shot at Cousins in free agency without this time in NOLA. If that costs Buddy Hield, so be it.

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