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PostPosted: July 12 19, 7:02 am 
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33anda3rd wrote:
I don't get the argument that the ladies should make the same money as the men. They've won 4/8 World Cups and the men can't put a goal on Mexico at home. Clearly the ladies should make more.

This is stupid and shouldn't matter, obviously, but the biggest reason I think the salary are so unequal is that the men make so much from their pro teams and the women don't, that the US can take advantage of the women because it becomes their primary salary. If the federation or a coach or all the travel pisses Christian Pulisic off, he can just say f it and refuse call up's any time he wants because he makes like $20 mil a year from Chelsea. Alex Morgan does that and she all of a sudden is only making like $60k a year from her club team.

Also, it'll be interesting to see how this affects NWSL because it gets these little boosts every four years from the World Cup interest and then, like clockwork four years later, they're barely scraping by again. This time seems to be a real sea change when you see brands like Budweiser and Nike finally pouring real money into it, but if the women get equal pay (I think they will and soon), all of a sudden the difference between being rich and making an income below the poverty line will be making the national team. I mean, it already is, but we're talking the difference between making a couple mil a year just for soccer and making $15-60k a year to play soccer, not even including the profile raising that leads to endorsements. The competition for those 23 spots will be insane. An argument to be made that it will be what pushes our women to stay in front of the ever-improving global field of competitors. It's legitimately the difference in salary between a CEO of a billion dollar company and a gas station cashier. If you're one of the last few players cut from the national team before a big tournament...holy [expletive].

So really, the long term question is how this rising tide actually lifts the non-international, female American pro soccer player because right now, it's trickle-down economics at it's finest with all of the attention being paid to the plight of the top 1% of the talent pool, and you can't build a thriving, self-sustaining pro league with the top 1% of the talent pool. Long-term, it can't be about how much the Megan Rapinoe's of the world get paid, it's gotta be about how the average pro playing in the NWSL gets paid.

This is really good insight into what I'm talking about: https://sports.yahoo.com/jessica-mcdona ... 48456.html
Jess McDonald is going to make life changing money based on being one of the last players on this roster, but she had to GRIND for decades in the face of circumstances that make it clear she was probably stupid to keep trying. The problem with that is that she's one of the 23 best american women's soccer players so she made it and even at her lowest moments, probably knew she had the goods. If you're the 150th best, and you were good enough to get a college scholarship to a good school but know you're never going to be national team caliber, the smart move is to leave the sport behind and go into whatever field your major prepared you for.

This cost/benefit equation has only very recently changed in MLS, by the way. 5 years ago, you had fringe national team players like Alan Gordon making $35k a year. Beckham, a bunch of sponsorship dollars, and rising interest in the global game is slowly changing that, but it's a bigger issue from 30,000 feet than just the WNT's pay.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 7:40 am 
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Great points thrill. But, Isn’t the plight of the top 1% true for how we look at all sports though. In baseball, it’s $500k a year for the mlbers and min wage for the minors. I’m not arguing it’s right but that fierce competition for a spot on (insert team here) is incredibly fierce throughout sports. Maybe moreso in women’s soccer and the national team especially if it’s a difference in a couple million. But I would be hesitant to distract from the equal pay movement at this point which deservedly has a very strong movement because the drop off outside the national team would be too great. Jmo but I definitely understand your point.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 8:19 am 
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Further, separating USSF or FIFA or whoever sets women's pay for the world cup, and speaking specifically about American soccer; American women draw more viewers than American men since the men don't make the world cup and choked on donkey dick in qualifying. But, the point remains, USWNT gets more eyeballs than USMNT which means more $$.

This kind of detracts from the overall equal pay for women/men world cup pay yet it's a completely valid/logical argument. People always point to lower ratings for the WNBA or NWSL or whatever when talking about equal pay. That argument is completely flipped backwards when talking about the wnt and mnt.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 8:22 am 
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They have to figure out how to actually have a viable pro league if they want the women's national team to continue to be successful. It's that simple. You can apply the band aid by treating the national team fairly, which they absolutely need to do immediately, I'm just saying the fight can't stop there. I'm thinking about the very near future, like 8 years from now. For example, Real Madrid just established a women's team like a month ago. The women's Premier League has been going in earnest for less than ten years. We got where we are now on the back of title 9, but if you want to stay on top, you're now competing with clubs like PSG, Lyon, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man United, Barcelona, and Real Madrid to develop talent when, in the past, you had no real development competition. Those clubs have wayyyyy more resources than NWSL ownership. NWSL has to stay viable and it has to be competitive with those leagues in a way that MLS doesn't necessarily have to be in order to continue to provide the national team with world class talent that wins World Cups and Olympic gold medals.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Further, separating USSF or FIFA or whoever sets women's pay for the world cup, and speaking specifically about American soccer; American women draw more viewers than American men since the men don't make the world cup and choked on donkey dick in qualifying. But, the point remains, USWNT gets more eyeballs than USMNT which means more $$.

This is misleading. It's not remotely true when it comes to friendlies/non-world cup or olympic games. The men outdraw them there. Also, the numbers when the men make the world cup, are similarly gigantic and it's a pretty safe bet, that if the US were to ever make a world cup final, it would blow the women's ratings out of the water. The women look strong comparatively now because of the aforementioned donkey dick choking contrasted with winning the whole thing back-to-back. Overall, long-term viability and upside still remains strongly in favor of the men's game, as it does in all sports because of many, many factors.
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
That argument is completely flipped backwards when talking about the wnt and mnt.

It's not, really. Also, because of the global appetite for men's soccer, ad/broadcast revenue, still strongly favors the men both historically and going forward unless the NWSL can become a viable, profitable entity that continues to grow the women's game in depth and breadth. Single game attendance and ratings aren't a comprehensive enough way to look at the dynamics at play here. All it takes is one world cup where the US rolls in over confident and less prepared/talented than their global competition and they go out in the group stage and this bubble bursts. That's an extremely distinct reality if they don't continue to grow the whole thing to make it bubble proof.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 10:50 am 
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I think we're talking about different things here, thrill.

I'm talking about the world cup in America specifically which wasn't entirely clear in my original post. You're talking about everything else.

The women draw more than the men (who didn't even bother to show up in the last one) in the WOrld Cup. And, if the world cup were held again in 6 months I'd put money on the women drawing more viewers. Sure, if the USMNT starts winning world cups, then they'll draw more. Similarly, if the queen had balls, she'd be the king.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 10:54 am 
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Regarding higher pay for the NWSL, if they have to start paying more or lose players overseas, they'll likely lose players overseas. I don't see any way around that. America doesn't care about soccer comparatively.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 2:03 pm 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Regarding higher pay for the NWSL, if they have to start paying more or lose players overseas, they'll likely lose players overseas. I don't see any way around that. America doesn't care about soccer comparatively.

I'm not talking about higher salaries in NWSL. I'm talking about NWSL actually existing to give a path from college to the professional level. The phenoms, the Mal Pugh's of the world, will get offers from big clubs when they're 18, but the Jessica McDonald's, the Rose Lavelle's won't because they won't be ready or they won't fit a scouting profile. Then they'll graduate college and become doctors or accountants and we won't win [expletive].
https://www.si.com/soccer/video/2019/07 ... ous-ground

If yet ANOTHER women's pro league collapses under the weight of profound fan and sponsor disinterest, I can guarantee you that the european leagues won't. Because of the infastructure in place both physically, financially, and culturally, they will continue on the same upward trajectory they've had for the last ten years. Then it's just a matter of time until our women are in even worse shape than the men. I'm talking less than a decade being a real possibility.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
I think we're talking about different things here, thrill.

I'm talking about the world cup in America specifically which wasn't entirely clear in my original post. You're talking about everything else.

We're talking about the same thing, I'm just taking a longer view, probably because I've been watching both national teams for 17 years and have been around for the up's and downs of both programs. You're essentially talking about the last 18 months.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
The women draw more than the men (who didn't even bother to show up in the last one) in the WOrld Cup. And, if the world cup were held again in 6 months I'd put money on the women drawing more viewers. Sure, if the USMNT starts winning world cups, then they'll draw more. Similarly, if the queen had balls, she'd be the king.


Sustained also-ran status by the USWNT will lead to a USWNT that gets equal pay to the men but don't win [expletive], don't draw [expletive] and don't get viewers. That's great for equality, but bad for the future of the sport and it's continued growth. The men can be also-rans and still make tons of money for US Soccer because global money gets funneled into the mens game like no other sport in the world.

Basically, the US needs to continue to lead the way in women's soccer on the international AND professional level if the sport itself is going to be viable long term here for women while the men have the luxury of being completely mediocre and still staying alive. What's happening right now for the women is a cultural phenomena and true equality will be achieved only when the women are free to be as mediocre as the men are and still make the same kind of money and draw the same kind of revenue. It's not going to be all that hard to achieve either. The USWNT is the reason that England is good now. They're the reason Real Madrid just started a women's program. They truly are. Before 1999, there was no country leading the way, but now it's us. The world looks at our team the way we look at the Brazilian men's team. The German men's team. We're the standard and we're driving everyone to invest, pay attention, and ultimately chase us. Without NWSL, they'll leave us behind and then Megan Rapinoe will still be rich, but the future Megan Rapinoe's of the US will not be.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 6:50 pm 
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Fantastic insight in this thread, thrill.


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PostPosted: July 12 19, 7:33 pm 
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Thrill, you make a compelling case. I bought a Rapinoe jersey, it's the first sports jersey I bought since getting Thierry Henry Arsenal jersey the year they went unbeaten. I also watched more womens games on TV than I've ever watched the American men play in a World Cup tournament, so US advertisers reached me better over the last month-plus via US national soccer than they ever have. The women being successful also puts more US girls into the soccer industrial copmlex, which is good for the economy of soccer. Whereas I don't know a lot of young Americans who know who Pulisic is: Euro kids might, but US kids today I'd wager know who Rapinoe is more than Pulisic.

Just some food for thought, I think you can make a case that the women in the US do more for the economy of soccer, as far as incremental gains, than the men's team.


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PostPosted: July 14 19, 6:13 pm 
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Never thought of getting a Rapinoe Jersey but that is kind of cool. But i am cheap on getting such things when they are hot. Plus I am too old.

May I ask, How much the men's version jersey set you back?


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