Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

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GatewaySnayke
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by GatewaySnayke »

He got flak for being a Debbie Downer? Woe is he...
Being a Debbie Downer would be proclaiming that our season is over in April, or something that goes out of the way to being pessimistic. Stating that Molina is going to turn into a pumpkin is a statement of the obvious -- one that Ollie Optimistic would make.
Snayke got an unprecedented amount of flack for complaining about this when Molina was the absolute least of the worries. And harping on it.
Right. I was complaining.
The point is, Molina hasn't turned a corner as anyone would like to think. The numbers don't bear it out. If he were really turning a corner, he would be doing a bit better than a .358 slugging. Or he would be drawing more walks. He's going to turn back into a good-field/no-hit pumpkin soon, and his average will probably remain around the .255-.260 range, and people will point to it and say, "yes, he CAN hit!" Even though he'll continue to stink.
I guess that could be considered complaining, especially if you're a Molina defender and anything written about him that doesn't go overboard in praising his right arm, his smile or anything else that detracts from the fact that he can't swing a bat makes you angry. The question was legit at the time of his streak: had Molina turned a corner? The answer: no. And when people said, "of COURSE he hasn't turned a corner! We know he's not a .300 hitter!" then my thought is that we should shut down GRB, because nothing should ever be debated or discussed. If we know Molina isn't a .300 hitter and will go back to sucking, we shouldn't discuss it. If we know Miles sucks but is scrappy and "versatile", we shouldn't discuss it, because we already know it. We already know a lot of things, so my question is why are we starting topics? Why are we visiting the board? It seems pretty pointless that we already know everything yet keep coming back for more.

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GatewaySnayke
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by GatewaySnayke »

RC21 wrote:You don't think he's any better than a .216 hitter?
I think he's a .240 hitter.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by Popeye_Card »

GatewaySnayke wrote:
He got flak for being a Debbie Downer? Woe is he...
Being a Debbie Downer would be proclaiming that our season is over in April, or something that goes out of the way to being pessimistic. Stating that Molina is going to turn into a pumpkin is a statement of the obvious -- one that Ollie Optimistic would make.
Very first sentence of the thread:
GatewaySnayke wrote:I know I'm supposed to be happy that Yadier Molina is hitting .292 and that he has a third of the hits that he had last season, but I don't see anything to be overjoyed about.
That's Ollie Optimistic?

Here's other things Ollie Optimistic apparently says:

"Yum. This cheesburger is delicious."
Ollie: "Yeah, but it has a ton of fat, and the cows it's made out of fart a lot."

"I was driving east this weekend, and because of the strong wind behind me, my car got 35 mpg."
Ollie: "You should buy a more fuel efficient car that always gets 35 mpg."

"Hey man, I hooked up with a hot chick this weekend."
Ollie: "She probably has the clap. You should get yourself checked out."

--P--

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stretch
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by stretch »

I took it that you weren't trying to have a discussion but were trying to stir up s**t.

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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by greenback44 »

Popeye_Card wrote:
greenback44 wrote:
Michael wrote:I don't see any reason to rush Anderson.
I don't see it as rushing him, so much as getting his feet wet. If he's going to be a starting catcher in the majors, he's got some stuff to learn that goes beyond OPS and caught-stealing percentage.
But getting his feet wet uses an option and starts his clock.
me:extra month of service time::you:backups' OPS

I don't see the loss of an option as much of an issue either. Unless he needs many, many more years of seasoning (in which case he really shouldn't be at AA), it's not at all hard to hide him on the roster as a backup catcher.

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GatewaySnayke
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by GatewaySnayke »

Ollie is rooted in being realistic. The first two situations are good sense. And since Ollie is a dude, he would most certainly not suggest that his friend get checked for the clap.

As for stretch, no, I was not trying to stir anything up. This is what I would have posted instead:

Molina still sucks, .292 average or not

Whooopppppeeeee! Molina is batting .292! Yes, we've got one of the best catchers in the league! Hoo-rah! /sarcasm. .292 average or not, Yadier Molina sucks. He can't walk, can't hit anything but can of corn singles and his defense is overrated. I hate Yadier Molina, and wish Gary Bennett would play every day. And people who like Yadier know nothing about baseball.

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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by Popeye_Card »

greenback44 wrote: me:extra month of service time::you:backups' OPS

I don't see the loss of an option as much of an issue either. Unless he needs many, many more years of seasoning (in which case he really shouldn't be at AA), it's not at all hard to hide him on the roster as a backup catcher.
Chances are, in the 44 PA's Stinnett had, Anderson would have struggled against MLB pitching anyway. So what's the real point? At his age, he should be getting as many PA's as possible in AA or AAA, not hanging around as a backup on a MLB bench for a month. I don't see the need to mess with Anderson at all for the extra production you might get out of him in 44 PA's on a team that's going nowhere anyway.

Is he even on the 40-man roster yet? (MLB.com says no, but it's not always accurate)

--P--

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stretch
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by stretch »

GatewaySnayke wrote:Ollie is rooted in being realistic. The first two situations are good sense. And since Ollie is a dude, he would most certainly not suggest that his friend get checked for the clap.

As for stretch, no, I was not trying to stir anything up. This is what I would have posted instead:

Molina still sucks, .292 average or not

Whooopppppeeeee! Molina is batting .292! Yes, we've got one of the best catchers in the league! Hoo-rah! /sarcasm. .292 average or not, Yadier Molina sucks. He can't walk, can't hit anything but can of corn singles and his defense is overrated. I hate Yadier Molina, and wish Gary Bennett would play every day. And people who like Yadier know nothing about baseball.
That's how I read your initial post in this thread.

No need to hide what you truly feel.

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JL21
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by JL21 »

GatewaySnayke wrote:
RC21 wrote:You don't think he's any better than a .216 hitter?
I think he's a .240 hitter.
I think that's a pretty reasonable estimate, though I'll note that in '04, '05, and now '07, he's ranged from .252 to .267.

In short, I don't think that 2006 is really much of an indicator of the type of player he is. It's part of the picture, and even a sizeable part of it. But it's still less than half of his career total.

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skmsw
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Re: Has there ever been a more hollow .292?

Post by skmsw »

Poor Snayke. Can't win for losing. You should quit while you're behind!

BEFORE he started this thread, Snayke presumably asked himself a question. "Yadi is hitting .292. Has he gotten better, and we can count on him hitting a little bit? Or, is he catching some breaks, seeing the ball fall in for him a little bit, and maybe in the middle of a hot streak?"

Not at all an unfair question, because at the time, there most certainly WERE folks proclaiming that yadi had indeed "become" a good hitter, that the post season last year and solid start this year "showed" it. Some of those thoughts are no doubt to be found in parts of this very thread's first 15 pages, so it's not fair to say to Snayke that he was "stating the obvious."

To answer that question, he looked at some numbers.

Rightly or wrongly, he reached the conclusion that Yadi probably had not really changed much, and looking ahread, we should not count on him hitting differently than we've been counting on all along. He's not a .216 hitter, and he's not a .292 hitter.

Furthermore, while looking at the numbers, he decided that while his .292 LOOKS pretty spiffy, his actual contribution to the offense in terms of creating runs really had not changed very much -- it was still pretty weak.

ALSO not an unfair question, because at times, his OPS was not all that different from say 2004 even though his BA was much better, and there most certainly was a not-uncommon sentiment that "what more do you want, the guy is hitting .290" and "not only is he not THE problem -- now that he's hitting .290, he's not even A problem."

He looked at the numbers and reached a different conclusion, then came here to discuss the questions he asked and the answers he found. Maybe he phrased it poorly. Maybe he even started out with an asnwer and then went back to the numbers to confirm it. But in the end, he made a case and threw it open for discussion, and personally, I think a lot of the responses were not in keeping with what *I* consider (whoever the hell I am) the right attitude for a forum like this one. Disagreement is always fine, but criticism for merely taking the position and debating or discussing it can be done lots of other places. Hopefully what makes this place more unique is that all questions are reasonable ones and all points of view, when supported with some evidence, are tolerated. Way too much "duh, we already knew that" on this thread, especially considering the fact that in between the "you aren't telling us anything new" posts, there were people strenuously disagreeing with him -- thus it is clear that we did NOT "already know that" and the discussion was valid.

Oh well. My two cents are up.
Sabermetric Legion of Doom Acting Chairman signing off!!
Last edited by skmsw on July 19 07, 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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