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PostPosted: January 8 10, 3:29 pm 
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Richie Allen wrote:
Boris originally was hoping for 8/160, from what I understand.

I've said it a couple times, or at least thought it, I'm sure Mo had an idea as far back as July of what we'd be able to offer Holliday this off season. I have the feeling 7/120 was not out of the realm of possibility. As long as we got him for a number we're comfortable with, why torture ourselves with speculation and what-ifs?


Who on this board is torturing him/herself, though? The likes of Olney and anonymous MLB executives might think the signing is crazy, but so what. Discussing whether or not we needed to go to 7 years doesn't signal that there's any real angst about the contract.

Holliday wasn't going to get Teixeira money unless the Yankees signed him, and I'm sure Boras realized that. Early in the offseason, I would have said 7/120 might not be enough to get him signed...but, as the offseason progressed, it became clear that the usual suspects weren't serious threats. Sometimes we have to look beyond the paranoia to see the logistics for certain clubs and the realities of the market.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 3:33 pm 
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Richie Allen wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
I don't believe that Boras ever thought he was gonna get Tex money for Holliday.

December 11th, 2009: The agent continues to expect Mark Teixeira-money for Holliday, eight years, $180 million.


And no agent would try to be manipulative (or, gasp, lie) on behalf of his client.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 3:36 pm 
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withAloe wrote:
Boras can't control the market. He can't force the Red Sox to not sign Lackey or the Mets to not sign Bay or the overall market to not be suppressed. Believe it or not, there are times when things don't go Boras's way (it could be factors outside of his control, it could be a misreading of the market). And a lot of his BS is transparent. Yeah, yeah, a "mystery" team lurks...Scooby-Doo and the gang are on the case.

Boris was looking for 8/180 and got 7/120. Does anyone have or know numbers on the other Boris represented #1 free agents and what they ultimately signed for versus what they were asking? I'd have to imagine Holliday is not one of his finer moments, despite the media claiming he must be a genius for duping the Cardinals so thoroughly.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 3:38 pm 
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withAloe wrote:
Richie Allen wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
I don't believe that Boras ever thought he was gonna get Tex money for Holliday.

December 11th, 2009: The agent continues to expect Mark Teixeira-money for Holliday, eight years, $180 million.


And no agent would try to be manipulative (or, gasp, lie) on behalf of his client.

Yeah, you or Luke having a hunch certainly carries more weight.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 3:39 pm 
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There were 11 teams in baseball with a payroll under 70m last season, they averaged 75 wins and a payroll of 54m.

If the Cardinals can be average like that, 75 wins coming from half the payroll, then spending 50m on Holliday and Pujols (13.6 WAR combined last season) puts them in the 88-win range, or right in the fluctuation of a playoff team.

I personally feel that the cardinals ability to manage their roster and evaluate talent is much better than that of the likes of Pittsburgh, Washington, Kansas City, and Baltimore.

Take the other 7 teams, whom i'd consider average or above in roster management, under 60m and you get an average of 83 wins from 53m in payroll.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 3:53 pm 
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withAloe wrote:
Who on this board is torturing him/herself, though? The likes of Olney and anonymous MLB executives might think the signing is crazy, but so what. Discussing whether or not we needed to go to 7 years doesn't signal that there's any real angst about the contract.

Holliday wasn't going to get Teixeira money unless the Yankees signed him, and I'm sure Boras realized that. Early in the offseason, I would have said 7/120 might not be enough to get him signed...but, as the offseason progressed, it became clear that the usual suspects weren't serious threats. Sometimes we have to look beyond the paranoia to see the logistics for certain clubs and the realities of the market.

Alright, I got other things I got to get doing. All I know is I've been hearing for ten years on these boards about how we never are and never will be a serious threat for signing big name free agents. Now we sign the #1 FA on the market and a fraction of the board seems to be in an uproar because we might not have done it too their liking. I'm like Jim. I'm giddy. And I want to celebrate this for a couple days without having to continually defend it. Maybe the other big money teams misread us and thought talks would fall through. Who cares what the reason is? We got him and we got him for less than we thought it would probably take. If you wanna keep speculating feel free. I've gotta go clear the driveway and then, hopefully, some [expletive].


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 4:00 pm 
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Richie Allen wrote:
hopefully, some jug-[expletive].

I'm curious as to what this is. It sounds erotic.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 4:04 pm 
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Richie,

Do you think Teixeira would have gotten the contract he did from any team other than the Yankees? Do you think Holliday would have gotten 8/180 from any team other than the Yankees? If you do, then we'll agree to disagree. If you don't, then we agree. If we agree, then hopefully we can also agree that Boras saying he wants 8/180 for Holliday doesn't necessarily mean he expected Holliday to get 8/180.

Boras reportedly wants 3+ years and big money for Ankiel. Does that mean he actually expects Ankiel to get 3+ years and big money? This is a guy who makes his living by manipulating. He's both loud-mouthed enough and successful enough that we tend to ignore the occasions when things don't go his way, or when he makes crazy remarks. Teams sign non-Boras clients to outrageous contracts and we talk about how stupid the team is (see Brandon Lyon, Jason Bay). Teams sign Boras clients to outrageous contracts and we talk about what a genius Boras is.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 4:06 pm 
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lukethedrifter wrote:
Richie Allen wrote:
phinstd wrote:
Boras is good at that chicken game Richie, I'll give him that.

For me, it was what another poster called a win, win, win. The player got the length he was hoping for, the agent got the total dollars he was looking for, and the Cards got the player at a deal they were willing to make.

I feel like I'm senselessly prolonging this but I'm not sure the second win is true. Boris originally was hoping for 8/160, from what I understand.

I've said it a couple times, or at least thought it, I'm sure Mo had an idea as far back as July of what we'd be able to offer Holliday this off season. I have the feeling 7/120 was not out of the realm of possibility. As long as we got him for a number we're comfortable with, why torture ourselves with speculation and what-ifs?


I don't believe that Boras ever thought he was gonna get Tex money for Holliday.


Exactly. Boras is going to say $160 to ensure $120.


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PostPosted: January 8 10, 4:10 pm 
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Richie Allen wrote:
Now we sign the #1 FA on the market and a fraction of the board seems to be in an uproar because we might not have done it too their liking.


I really don't know who it is that's in an uproar. I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

I'm giddy about the signing, too. That doesn't prevent me from wondering what the next best offer on the table was, nor does it prevent me from questioning the idiot who thinks signing Holliday for 7/120 will go down as one of the worst signings ever.

Anyway, let's get back to making fun of the Bay/Soriano contract. And the people who think we're doomed, because we're taking a studs and scrubs approach--as if that approach never works.


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