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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:29 pm 
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wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
I could not disagree more - those cells still forming have, in every pregnancy in all of human history that was not ended prematurely either artificially or naturally, resulted in a human life. 100%. While those cells still forming are not a viable life at that time, they will eventually be a human life every time barring a miscarriage, abortion or still birth.

That A becomes B does not make A = B.

When it comes to a human life, it should, in my opinion.

That's not actually an argument -- it's just restating your opinion that we cannot make distinctions between things that are different.

I'm finishing up my lunch now right now. In several hours, I will be depositing it as a smelly turd. I don't plan on consuming said turd as lunch even though 100% of my lunches have later become turds.


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:32 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
I could not disagree more - those cells still forming have, in every pregnancy in all of human history that was not ended prematurely either artificially or naturally, resulted in a human life. 100%. While those cells still forming are not a viable life at that time, they will eventually be a human life every time barring a miscarriage, abortion or still birth.

That A becomes B does not make A = B.

When it comes to a human life, it should, in my opinion.

That's not actually an argument -- it's just restating your opinion that we cannot make distinctions between things that are different.

I'm finishing up my lunch now right now. In several hours, I will be depositing it as a smelly turd. I don't plan on consuming said turd as lunch even though 100% of my lunches have later become turds.


The comparison between a fetus and a turd is going to go over really great. :wink:


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:33 pm 
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I thought so.


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:46 pm 
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wart57 wrote:
I get what you are saying about punishing people for bad choices, I think you are correct that a lot of people want to punish people for bad choices, but I think a lot of conservatives also see liberals as a group wanting to reward people for making bad choices, I think this is not correct either.


Letting a poor person who is sick have health care is not rewarding them for bad behavior. It's just humane.

When you take a step back and look at these punitive policies - cutting Planned Parenthood, keeping college costs high, restricting health care access based on money, lowering the minimum wage (another thing they just did in Iowa) - what this is all about is the people with money want to preserve their place in the hierarchy. Especially the working class people with just a little bit of money. They are afraid they might fall down to a lower rung in the hierarchy, and they've seen how badly we treat those people. They don't want any part of that.


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:51 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
I could not disagree more - those cells still forming have, in every pregnancy in all of human history that was not ended prematurely either artificially or naturally, resulted in a human life. 100%. While those cells still forming are not a viable life at that time, they will eventually be a human life every time barring a miscarriage, abortion or still birth.

That A becomes B does not make A = B.

When it comes to a human life, it should, in my opinion.

That's not actually an argument -- it's just restating your opinion that we cannot make distinctions between things that are different.

I'm finishing up my lunch now right now. In several hours, I will be depositing it as a smelly turd. I don't plan on consuming said turd as lunch even though 100% of my lunches have later become turds.


You got that backwards, have your turds ever become your lunch?

Also 100% of your lunch does not become a turd. How does your body get the energy to stay alive - by digesting that lunch. So, 100% of that lunch does not become a turd.

Also, has your lunch ever become a living human being?


Last edited by wart57 on May 19 17, 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:52 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
I could not disagree more - those cells still forming have, in every pregnancy in all of human history that was not ended prematurely either artificially or naturally, resulted in a human life. 100%. While those cells still forming are not a viable life at that time, they will eventually be a human life every time barring a miscarriage, abortion or still birth.

That A becomes B does not make A = B.

When it comes to a human life, it should, in my opinion.

That's not actually an argument -- it's just restating your opinion that we cannot make distinctions between things that are different.

I'm finishing up my lunch now right now. In several hours, I will be depositing it as a smelly turd. I don't plan on consuming said turd as lunch even though 100% of my lunches have later become turds.


This is a frustratingly obtuse logic and example, especially given the origin of the argument is how callous one side of the debate can be.


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:57 pm 
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wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
I could not disagree more - those cells still forming have, in every pregnancy in all of human history that was not ended prematurely either artificially or naturally, resulted in a human life. 100%. While those cells still forming are not a viable life at that time, they will eventually be a human life every time barring a miscarriage, abortion or still birth.

That A becomes B does not make A = B.

When it comes to a human life, it should, in my opinion.

That's not actually an argument -- it's just restating your opinion that we cannot make distinctions between things that are different.

I'm finishing up my lunch now right now. In several hours, I will be depositing it as a smelly turd. I don't plan on consuming said turd as lunch even though 100% of my lunches have later become turds.


You got that backwards, have your turds ever become your lunch?

Yes!

Image


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 2:58 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
wart57 wrote:
I could not disagree more - those cells still forming have, in every pregnancy in all of human history that was not ended prematurely either artificially or naturally, resulted in a human life. 100%. While those cells still forming are not a viable life at that time, they will eventually be a human life every time barring a miscarriage, abortion or still birth.

That A becomes B does not make A = B.

When it comes to a human life, it should, in my opinion.

That's not actually an argument -- it's just restating your opinion that we cannot make distinctions between things that are different.

I'm finishing up my lunch now right now. In several hours, I will be depositing it as a smelly turd. I don't plan on consuming said turd as lunch even though 100% of my lunches have later become turds.


You got that backwards, have your turds ever become your lunch?

Yes!

Image

Image


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 3:12 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
This is a frustratingly obtuse logic and example, especially given the origin of the argument is how callous one side of the debate can be.

In all seriousness, I apologize for bringing up turd logic if it truly bothersome here. Saying you cannot make distinctions between things that are different because a process of transformation connects the two is a straightforward logical error, and I figured talking about turds would be more fun.

It's perfectly fine to acknowledge there is a distinction and make a judgement that it doesn't matter in this case, but the whole game of this argument is to obscure the fact that there actually are enormous meaningful differences in order to avoid the inherently gray and fuzzy territory where we must make judgements and where no appeal to authority or deductive logic decides the matter.


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PostPosted: May 19 17, 3:19 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
This is a frustratingly obtuse logic and example, especially given the origin of the argument is how callous one side of the debate can be.

In all seriousness, I apologize for bringing up turd logic if it truly bothersome here. Saying you cannot make distinctions between things that are different because a process of transformation connects the two is a straightforward logical error, and I figured talking about turds would be more fun.

It's perfectly fine to acknowledge there is a distinction and make a judgement that it doesn't matter in this case, but the whole game of this argument is to obscure the fact that there actually are enormous meaningful differences in order to avoid the inherently gray and fuzzy territory where we must make judgements and where no appeal to authority or deductive logic decides the matter.


I never said there is not is distinction, I said that because it deals with a human life, that distinction should not matter.

At least that is what I meant to say.


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