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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 6 17, 8:12 am 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
I honestly think Moore could have killed someone (except trump) and still get elected at this point. I’ve touched on this before but the divide is so great and the animosity so fueled by the world today that republicans have dug their heels in. R = vote and a big middle finger to the people who look down on them. I think it’s stupid and I know most here agree with that. But I really don’t think it’s about abortion or religion or whatever issues you want to cite. It’s simply about a hatred for the left.

And to a lesser extent that sentiment exists on the left as well.

Politics has always been dirty. But the tools that constantly remind everyone how dirty have never been around before. And the incessant bombardment of half truths, deceptive stories, and blaming the other side is sick. I don’t have a solution. Personally, I just avoid it all. But some people like rolling around in the mud I guess which leads to this unhealthy situation.


In the south in particular, I don't know that is is directly *about* religion, but there is a clear bond between religion and politics that is impossible to break. For many, asking them to vote against a "conservative"--you might as well be asking them to convert to Islam.

That may be true, but I don't think their candidates necessarily need to be 'God-Fearin-Folk' (see, Trump and Moore)


Correct. It is more of a case that their political identity as (more?) important to them as their religion. Which is pretty common both on the right and the left, but in the south it is so interwoven with their religion that it is tough to differentiate the two. Plus politicians prey on that link. If a candidate can tie to their religion, there is no way they will give *that* up.

It really gets bizzare with Obama vs. Trump. By any rational measure, Obama is by far a more God-fearing Christian than Trump has ever been. But if you asked most evangelicals in the south, they will swear that the opposite is true, because it doesn’t fit their narrative that conservative = Christian.


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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 6 17, 9:18 am 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
I honestly think Moore could have killed someone (except trump) and still get elected at this point. I’ve touched on this before but the divide is so great and the animosity so fueled by the world today that republicans have dug their heels in. R = vote and a big middle finger to the people who look down on them. I think it’s stupid and I know most here agree with that. But I really don’t think it’s about abortion or religion or whatever issues you want to cite. It’s simply about a hatred for the left.

And to a lesser extent that sentiment exists on the left as well.

Politics has always been dirty. But the tools that constantly remind everyone how dirty have never been around before. And the incessant bombardment of half truths, deceptive stories, and blaming the other side is sick. I don’t have a solution. Personally, I just avoid it all. But some people like rolling around in the mud I guess which leads to this unhealthy situation.


In the south in particular, I don't know that is is directly *about* religion, but there is a clear bond between religion and politics that is impossible to break. For many, asking them to vote against a "conservative"--you might as well be asking them to convert to Islam.

That may be true, but I don't think their candidates necessarily need to be 'God-Fearin-Folk' (see, Trump and Moore)


Correct. It is more of a case that their political identity as (more?) important to them as their religion. Which is pretty common both on the right and the left, but in the south it is so interwoven with their religion that it is tough to differentiate the two. Plus politicians prey on that link. If a candidate can tie to their religion, there is no way they will give *that* up.

It really gets bizzare with Obama vs. Trump. By any rational measure, Obama is by far a more God-fearing Christian than Trump has ever been. But if you asked most evangelicals in the south, they will swear that the opposite is true, because it doesn’t fit their narrative that conservative = Christian.

Well thought-out words fellas. The only thing I'd add is kind of what Shlabotnik said to start this off, I personally know people (Catholics) that hang it all on abortion. At least that is what they expressed to me. And these people are smart, not ranter/raver types.

Nevertheless, some of what you guys are relating may be true for these people I know as well. They say it's abortion, but it may be more involved. When they support guys like Trump or Moore, they really have little else as a smart rational person to hang their hat on than the abortion fallback; as opposed to their support of more conventional GOP jackasses like Ryan and McConnell etal, who they can pretend to believe they are good for the economy or business etc etc. It's impossible for them to argue that Trump/Moore is good for business, national security, international affairs, etc etc. - soooo let's just go with the abortion thing.
-----------
Thus, I find the chumps like Ryan to be worse than complete nutsos like Trump or Moore.


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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 6 17, 11:42 am 
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If a man in his 30s comes to pick up your teenage daughter here are the steps to take:
1) find out if he's Republican
2) if yes, something something Hillary and wish them a nice evening.
3) if no, he probably would vote no on increasing corporate margins at the burden of the poor and must be stopped by any means necessary, including electing sexual predators.


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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 7 17, 6:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 7 17, 9:07 am 
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if you want to get angry this morning



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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 7 17, 3:54 pm 
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My scouting report on the cusp of this election:

Anecdote #1: Engineer from Huntsville that I work with. Conservative Christian. Talks the talk and walks the walk. Says he will probably sit this out. Can't vote for Moore because of his shenanigans but can't vote for Jones because of abortion. "If it weren't for abortion, I'd be a Democrat."

Anecdote #2: In Pascagoula MS last night a black cop at the hotel I was checking in to saw the AL plate on my car and asked about the election. I said I don't live in AL any more but I certainly wouldn't vote for Moore if I was there and that I'd heard the same from others. He said something along the lines of "wait and see what they do and not what they say. We saw what happened in 2016."

Anecdote #3: Talking with good old boy electricians from Mobile that I was working with today. The one who would venture an opinion said no way he could vote for Moore. That's one of three typical white Alabamians who would normally vote for the GOP going on record like that. I assume the other two would be Moore voters.

Take away: There is a LOT of interest and frankly, I'm surprised at the two admissions of won't be voting for Moore. But I'll be like the cop and wait and see.

Maybe Jones has an outside chance. But only if those who say they are going to stay home do and all the Democrats and women who would vote for Moore DO vote for Moore. Those folks are going to have to turnout hard for Jones to have any kind of chance.

I'm not holding my breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 7 17, 4:25 pm 
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wart57 wrote:
I generally assume they are lying to get elected already.


I think a guy like Moore probably really is against abortion, but not for religious reasons. First, it would not shock me at all if one of the girls he dated had an abortion. But he knows just because he's against abortion, does not mean that he (or his friends and family) will no longer have access to abortion, as a relatively wealthy and powerful family in Alabama. Secondly, he is likely against abortion because limiting women's options when they are in an extremely tough situation is a nice way to preserve the patriarchy. I don't think a monster like this cares on iota for unborn babies. He only cares about them as far as they impact his status and situation. I am reminded of the blank sucking nullity article about Trump:

Quote:
Slavery? That’s another thing that his very dishonest enemies want to blame him for. Racism? He’s been accused of it, and honestly it’s so ridiculous, so ridiculous. History? He’s in the business of making it, baby. Violence? Not his fault. People protesting? He doesn’t know them.


Add to the list something like: "Abortion? Evangelicals hate it but they love me."


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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 8 17, 6:56 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 8 17, 7:46 am 
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This morning I’m kind of leaning toward hoping he does get elected just to watch Mitch squirm. But then I just read the latest news in the Baseball Forum so kind of in a pissy mood.


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 Post subject: Re: Senator Roy Moore
PostPosted: December 8 17, 8:50 am 
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Radbird wrote:
This morning I’m kind of leaning toward hoping he does get elected just to watch Mitch squirm. But then I just read the latest news in the Baseball Forum so kind of in a pissy mood.


Though it falls right in line with wanting to "MAGA", i.e. marginalizing homosexuals, black people, women, etc....


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