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PostPosted: December 4 18, 6:14 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
It's also ignoring the fact that the petrochemical industry permeates every single part of society. Plastic doesn't magically appear.

You always bring up plastics as if it were some kind of problem, but fixing carbon into plastics is fine. The climate issue is with releasing the carbon into the atmospehere. There's still some issue with production of the precursor, but a rump petrochemical industry overwhelmingly focused on producing carbon that stays on the surface of the earth is not exactly a major objection to the project of ending it as a burned fuel source.


What are you going to do with the remainder of the oil and gas pulled from the ground and refined enough to produce the multitude of petrochemicals? Re-inject?

Seems more efficient to still use the majority of the resource as fuel, and offsetting the carbon emission with scrubbers.

This should be moved to the other thread, but I think a workable plan looks like phasing out coal, drawing down petroleum, continuing to use natural gas, increase renewables, investing in carbon scrubbing, and focusing on energy efficiency. I realize many of these things are close to what AOC outlines, but when expressed in absolutes (e.g. 100% energy production from renewable sources) I feel like that plays to the base while losing credibility as being feasible.


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 12:04 pm 
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PostPosted: December 6 18, 12:26 pm 
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Bless these women



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PostPosted: December 6 18, 12:27 pm 
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G. Keenan wrote:


This might not be well-received/viewed as anti-millenial, but this kind of annoys me.

I get complaining about the speakers chosen. But I would have much preferred one of 2 things:

1. Wait to tweet about the orientation until after its over. Give it your undivided attention while you're there.

2. Share the entire agenda/speaker list, so we can see if speaker #7 is a labor leader. And if they didn't give you the list in advance, then revert to #1.


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 12:44 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
It's also ignoring the fact that the petrochemical industry permeates every single part of society. Plastic doesn't magically appear.

You always bring up plastics as if it were some kind of problem, but fixing carbon into plastics is fine. The climate issue is with releasing the carbon into the atmospehere. There's still some issue with production of the precursor, but a rump petrochemical industry overwhelmingly focused on producing carbon that stays on the surface of the earth is not exactly a major objection to the project of ending it as a burned fuel source.


What are you going to do with the remainder of the oil and gas pulled from the ground and refined enough to produce the multitude of petrochemicals? Re-inject?

Seems more efficient to still use the majority of the resource as fuel, and offsetting the carbon emission with scrubbers.

This should be moved to the other thread, but I think a workable plan looks like phasing out coal, drawing down petroleum, continuing to use natural gas, increase renewables, investing in carbon scrubbing, and focusing on energy efficiency. I realize many of these things are close to what AOC outlines, but when expressed in absolutes (e.g. 100% energy production from renewable sources) I feel like that plays to the base while losing credibility as being feasible.



Play to the base! Do you know how long I've been waiting for a Democrat to play to the base?

If you want to end up somewhere in the middle, you don't start out in the middle. You start out far to the left and negotiate from there. Negotiating from the center will not get us where we need to be. Even going all the way to the left may not get us where we need to be.


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 12:51 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
Schlich wrote:
It's also pretty hilarious that you're knocking a piece of legislation for being shallow and scientifically unfeasible when it hasn't been written yet.

If there's a substantive criticism to be had in all this it should not be about nonsense right-wing flak, it should be internal to the left about preparedness to govern given the opportunity. The Left has been so powerless for so long that we're quite comfortable in our rhetoric and will face real challenges implementing an agenda.

On single payer, for example, the Left rhetoric is absolutely right on the principles, but if we want this to actually happen, time has come where we really do need to reckon with how to actually do the required taxes, manage impacts on provider payments, etc. Got to go beyond owning the bad critiques.


I agree with this, and there are people on the left working on those things.


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 1:00 pm 
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ghostrunner wrote:
Bless these women



Wow!! That's very ballsy/tone deaf of him. Did he not pay attention to the midterm election results, or is he really that threatened by their presence?


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 2:10 pm 
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mikechamp wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:
Bless these women



Wow!! That's very ballsy/tone deaf of him. Did he not pay attention to the midterm election results, or is he really that threatened by their presence?



"You don't know how the game is played"

It really is all like a game to them because if they "lose" the game, they will just end up unemployed with a multi-million dollar parachute. When poor people "lose" at this game they end up dead.


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 2:18 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
mikechamp wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:
Bless these women



Wow!! That's very ballsy/tone deaf of him. Did he not pay attention to the midterm election results, or is he really that threatened by their presence?



"You don't know how the game is played"

It really is all like a game to them because if they "lose" the game, they will just end up unemployed with a multi-million dollar parachute. When poor people "lose" at this game they end up dead.


Life’s just a gamble, a game we all play


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PostPosted: December 6 18, 2:38 pm 
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I question if that is a direct quote, or her paraphrasing what she took away from his remarks. I have a really tough time believing he said that, though quite certain he implied it.


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