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PostPosted: June 25 19, 11:07 am 
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gone fission
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Popeye_Card wrote:
thrill wrote:
One of my biggest pet peeves that has turned into a full on conspiracy theory of mine is when I read articles about co2 rates and there's an accompanying picture of a looming nuclear power plant. It's like they're trying to associate nuclear power with carbon emissions when nuclear power is just about the only thing we've done right post ww2 in regards to decreasing emissions.


The steam coming out of the cooling tower is impressive though. Doesn’t matter that it is water vapor.


It's radioactive smoke!


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PostPosted: June 25 19, 11:26 am 
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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
The human race, as a whole, can be very stupid.

+ +
Our brains have been hardwired over millenia for primal fears (in this example visual water vapor). We don't live/base collective decisions in reality.
------
Switching gears- don't we need centralized something w/r/t sustainable safe methods of meeting energy demands?


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PostPosted: June 25 19, 12:21 pm 
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Swirls wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
thrill wrote:
One of my biggest pet peeves that has turned into a full on conspiracy theory of mine is when I read articles about co2 rates and there's an accompanying picture of a looming nuclear power plant. It's like they're trying to associate nuclear power with carbon emissions when nuclear power is just about the only thing we've done right post ww2 in regards to decreasing emissions.


The steam coming out of the cooling tower is impressive though. Doesn’t matter that it is water vapor.


It's radioactive smoke!

Unrelated, how did people continue to work at the Chernobyl nuclear reactors that remained online? Did they go to work in full radiation gear every day?


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PostPosted: June 25 19, 12:51 pm 
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gone fission
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thrill wrote:
Swirls wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
thrill wrote:
One of my biggest pet peeves that has turned into a full on conspiracy theory of mine is when I read articles about co2 rates and there's an accompanying picture of a looming nuclear power plant. It's like they're trying to associate nuclear power with carbon emissions when nuclear power is just about the only thing we've done right post ww2 in regards to decreasing emissions.


The steam coming out of the cooling tower is impressive though. Doesn’t matter that it is water vapor.


It's radioactive smoke!

Unrelated, how did people continue to work at the Chernobyl nuclear reactors that remained online? Did they go to work in full radiation gear every day?


It took me a few weeks to notice your post in the TV thread about this. Here's the response I listed in that thread (which is now somewhat hidden since it's on a previous page).

Quote:
Sorry, just saw this. I haven't watched the series yet, but I intend to. The other units remained working until I believe like 2001-2002... So like 15 years or so after the accident, mostly because the USSR/Ukraine needed the electricity and their grid couldn't support the increased demand if the plants were permanently shut down.

About a decade ago I remember an old BBC documentary called the Chernobyl Sarcophagus - it was from like 2000, so it's probably available for free on YouTube honestly. It's about 45 minutes long? Anyways, it was filmed by the first media crew allowed at the accident site, so they have some great insights. Essentially workers were brought in/out each shift via train because of the exclusion/evacuation zone around the plant.

As for radiation suits, probably not. That's not really a thing - what you typically see nuclear workers wearing indoors during refueling outages or outside from accidents like Fukushima are essentially there for contamination, not radiation. Microscopic radioactive particles (contamination) would essentially be on the surface of everything in that area, and they're sticky and cling to anything that comes in contact with them so you completely cover yourself from head to toes with the understanding that your outermost layer of clothing will be covered in that crap, but it is disposed of so that your regular clothing is clean.

Actual radiation dose is typically minimized by three things that are pretty self-explanatory:
1. time (limit the actual amount of time spent performing work in an area, walk quickly past high radiation areas, etc)
2. distance (keep yourself as far away physically from the radioactive area as you can)
3. shielding (certain things like lead, water, and concrete are good barriers to block radioactive neutrons and other sub-atomic particles)


Basically as long as the workers were walking directly from the train station into the plant, they were likely wearing just regular clothes. If they were going to be spending a significant amount of time outside doing physical work, they probably put on contamination suits (the proverbial duck suit mentioned above) so as to minimize the amount of radioactive particles that might cling to their clothing.


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PostPosted: June 25 19, 12:59 pm 
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Thanks. That's interesting. Makes me question a lot of the hysteria surrounding how ominous the term "exclusion zone" sounds when actual exposure is fairly preventable with basic precautions.
I think you'd probably find the clean up portion more interesting than the more hysterical stuff that the show leaned into (Bridge of Death, Soviet Beaurecracy, etc) and I'd love to hear your take.


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PostPosted: June 25 19, 1:29 pm 
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gone fission
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thrill wrote:
Thanks. That's interesting. Makes me question a lot of the hysteria surrounding how ominous the term "exclusion zone" sounds when actual exposure is fairly preventable with basic precautions.
I think you'd probably find the clean up portion more interesting than the more hysterical stuff that the show leaned into (Bridge of Death, Soviet Beaurecracy, etc) and I'd love to hear your take.


Yeah, I finally downloaded the episodes so I'm hoping to watch them this weekend. I've heard a lot of good things about it.

Side note: there are live webcams of the Chernobyl "NSC" (new safe cover) that replaces the Sarcophagus that was erected many years ago. At least there used to be - a google search for "chernobyl webcam" yields several results but most of the sites are blocked here at work so I don't know if they're still active or not.

The Chernobyl Sarcophagus documentary is really good and worth your time to watch it. My understanding is some of the footage made it from that documentary into the HBO series. It is still available on YouTube here:


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PostPosted: July 8 19, 8:06 pm 
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Whoa, wtf is up with Lake Michigan. flooding!


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PostPosted: July 9 19, 10:53 am 
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Freed Roger wrote:
Whoa, wtf is up with Lake Michigan. flooding!


The lake level is at like a 10 year high because of all the rain in the region. Apparently it is also rising towards the southern end of the lake because the land surrounding the lake is settling. The weight of the glacier that formed the lake pushed up all the surrounding land like an ice cube in a glass of water, and it has slowly been sinking back down in the centuries since, causing the water level in the lake itself to rise relative to the shoreline.


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PostPosted: July 9 19, 8:13 pm 
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There's someone in my head but it's not me
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Location: Clowns to the left of me. Jokers to the right. Here I am.
Quote:
"From day one, my administration has made it a top priority to ensure that America has among the very cleanest air and cleanest water on the planet," Trump said during his remarks delivered at the White House on Monday, part of a much-touted "environmental" speech. "We want the cleanest air, we want crystal clean water, and that's what we're doing and what we're working on so hard. We are doing a very tough job and not everybody knows it.”
Quote:
Trump’s speech today did not symbolize a change of heart on climate change (he actually never even mentioned climate change), but rather a political move to lay the foundation for a talking point for his re-election, which he will use to try and win a new voter base. No, not climate change scientists or environmentalists, but millennials and suburban moms — that is, according to sources who spoke with the New York Times. A senior White House official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told the New York Times there are moderate voters who “just want to know that he’s being responsible” on environmental issues — and that is who today’s speech was designed to reach.


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PostPosted: July 15 19, 11:07 am 
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For vacation -Was kind of blown away by the near-record high water levels in Lake Michigan. (records set already in other Great Lakes). The last time we were there, it was way lower. For me it's first world vacation issue - place like South Haven which we passed thru heading up, had it's non-main beaches gone and the main beaches greatly diminished (Crowding a lot of Chicago FIBS into smaller space).

Frankfort -The town we stayed near had lake water broaching on a main road. The town is fortunate to have a massive main beach area, -it's still a big area, but much smaller. The water, without wave action, is only a foot or two below the breaker wall. No endless walks up the shoreline though, because there is no accessible shoreline to walk.

Some of the resort and homes up and down the beach had their beaches gone, and access stairs washed away. Place called Watervale is on an inland lake, but also accesses Lake Michigan beach area - I took a look and it was gone as could be.

About 5 years ago, we rented a place that featured awesome beach shoreline access between Harbor Springs and Mackinaw - glad we didn't pick that place again, because I'm certain the access is gone.

Besides vacationers, homeowners etc - there are real issues with roads, and safety concerns where marina electrical stuff that goes under. Larger scale, I have no clue about utilities - water treatment plants and even nuclear power plants ability to handle potential even higher water.

Anyways here is a Scientific American Article on this -some of if is weather, but lays blame on climate change. This will be a new normal, it appears.

Polar vortex, less evaporation in winter, then heat increase and more rain from sudden evaporation. Lots of variables mentioned. Interesting [expletive]. The one part that I don't see mentioned - wouldn't rising sea levels from polar ice cap find a way to the great lakes? Might be a dumb question. I guess they can test for salinity.


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