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PostPosted: September 16 16, 8:44 pm 
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Has an anecdote about a townie he overheard.
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cardinalkarp wrote:
It's crazy that those of us who are in favor of some gun control are considered the one's infringing on gun owners rights. At what point are gun owners infringing on my right to feeling safe in public gatherings? Because I'm sure there are plenty of people carrying w/o a permit, background check, or training.

No permit? Doesn't that just beg for illegal firearms to run rampant?


We are so beyond that point already. I'm pretty sure open carry goes beyond that point. I don't know about you guys but when I see someone open carrying I first thing, well is that the guy that kills me because he's going to shoot up this place, or get mad because I support teh gheys, or because he thinks my car is loud? Then I think what a [expletive] [expletive] that guy is, I'll probably get killed by some complete [expletive].


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PostPosted: September 16 16, 10:44 pm 
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Diddy wrote:
I think mo is the eleventh state to institute constitutional carry. Saw the list of states the other day when this passed and was suppressed by some of them. I'm a pretty big supporter of gun rights and have a lot of friends that are also. I literally know no one that thinks this is a good idea.


Mod edit: let's keep it civil and focused on the issue.

-MCG


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PostPosted: September 16 16, 10:50 pm 
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Quick question...

Anyone feel safe when they're around a stranger with a gun?


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PostPosted: September 16 16, 11:16 pm 
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stlouie_lipp wrote:
cardsfansince82 wrote:
stlouie_lipp wrote:
Do these "stand your ground" laws essentially get rid of the common law "duty to retreat" rule?


That's precisely what they do. You can already kill someone when the circumstances are warranted in any state and be found not guilty. With stand your ground you don't have to make any effort to avoid or diffuse the situation. You can even be the aggressor that initiates the whole thing and the law is still supposed to protect you. Basically it's up to the prosecutor to prove your fear wasn't reasonable, which is practically impossible. It's basically extending the same legal status of law enforcement to ordinary citizens.


Yikes! So they are basically saying "[expletive] you" to what had been established law for over a century through legislation sponsored by puppets of the NRA?!?!?!

Does anyone have a link to the new statute? I'd like to read it.

I believe this is it:

http://www.senate.mo.gov/16info/BTS_Web/Bill.aspx?SessionType=R&BillID=22246426

The relevant addition in bold:

3. A person does not have a duty to retreat:
(1) From a dwelling, residence, or vehicle where the person is not unlawfully entering or unlawfully remaining;
(2) From private property that is owned or leased by such individual; or
(3) If the person is in any other location such person has the right to be.

The earlier paragraph does state that force is not defensible by the initial aggressor:

1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subsection 2 of this section, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such force to be necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful force by such other person, unless:

(1) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his or her use of force is nevertheless justifiable provided:

(a) He or she has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened use of unlawful force

Which seems like a problematic exception given that I would think that often the only person other than the defendant who could establish such communication of withdrawal is dead, but obviously I have no idea how any of this actually works in practice and this bit isn't new.


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PostPosted: September 17 16, 8:59 am 
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Nobody that I know thinks this is a good idea. Nobody on this board thinks it's a good idea.

Don't turn this into a "conservative posters" argument, whoever mentioned that early in the thread. Nobody I know supports this. It's already causing you to lump responsible gun owners in with whatever clowns passed this.

I think it should be CCW requirements for buying a gun (fingerprints, safety course, shooting test, etc). It should be a more extensive course to conceal and carry.


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PostPosted: September 17 16, 11:00 am 
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is shooing asian children away from his fridge.
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TGantz wrote:
Nobody that I know thinks this is a good idea. Nobody on this board thinks it's a good idea.

Don't turn this into a "conservative posters" argument, whoever mentioned that early in the thread. Nobody I know supports this. It's already causing you to lump responsible gun owners in with whatever clowns passed this.

I think it should be CCW requirements for buying a gun (fingerprints, safety course, shooting test, etc). It should be a more extensive course to conceal and carry.


We'll see how many responsible gun owners contact their reps demanding this law be changed.


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PostPosted: September 17 16, 11:16 am 
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Has an anecdote about a townie he overheard.
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cardsfansince82 wrote:
TGantz wrote:
Nobody that I know thinks this is a good idea. Nobody on this board thinks it's a good idea.

Don't turn this into a "conservative posters" argument, whoever mentioned that early in the thread. Nobody I know supports this. It's already causing you to lump responsible gun owners in with whatever clowns passed this.

I think it should be CCW requirements for buying a gun (fingerprints, safety course, shooting test, etc). It should be a more extensive course to conceal and carry.


We'll see how many responsible gun owners contact their reps demanding this law be changed.


Yeah here's a hint. Not a damn one.


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PostPosted: September 17 16, 6:37 pm 
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InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
Quick question...

Anyone feel safe when they're around a stranger with a gun?

Sorry for being a butt earlier in the thread, but this is something I'm really curious about.


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PostPosted: September 17 16, 8:02 pm 
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InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
Quick question...

Anyone feel safe when they're around a stranger with a gun?

Sorry for being a butt earlier in the thread, but this is something I'm really curious about.



The problem I have answering that is that people exaggerate the degree to which they're unsafe, which I've come to realize over the years. If you take away all the shootings related to other criminal situations like drugs and gangs, and all the other shootings that happen between acquaintances, there's hardly anything left. If you go into a "crime ridden" neighborhood, and you're minding your own business, you're still probably going to be fine because the criminals aren't going to be concerned about you. Obviously people get mugged sometimes, but it would be interesting to see where that happens most.

Pretty good article on that:

http://hubpages.com/politics/why_do_people_get_murdered

So my default state has become that I feel safe pretty much anywhere. We live fairly close to a troubled commercial area. Troubled in the sense that it used to be a big deal, and now shops close down and every other block or so there's a neglected building here and there along with some newer and more active areas. We've had people tell us they worry about going there, or ask aren't we worried about going there. But we go there to eat, shop for groceries, etc... It's fine.

Anyway - given all that, if I suddenly see someone carrying a handgun I wouldn't say I freak out or anything but that person becomes the one I'm worried about. If it's an larger assault weapon, I want nothing to do with that and will head the other direction.

- Edited a couple times for clarity, and to make it less rambly. Not sure I succeeded.


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PostPosted: September 17 16, 9:11 pm 
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InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
InvincibleCakeEater wrote:
Quick question...

Anyone feel safe when they're around a stranger with a gun?

Sorry for being a butt earlier in the thread, but this is something I'm really curious about.

Honestly, yes. I do. Totally off topic as I don't really see how it relates to this ruling. But if you've been to one breakfast near a hunting ground, you've been to a thousand. Everyone is armed to the tooth, half drinuking and the other half drunk, and it is just kind of awesome.

Now am I sort of implicitly bias to trust drunk rednecks? Probably. But there is my answer.


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