GatewayRedbirds.com

A Message Board Dedicated to Discussing St. Louis Cardinals Baseball!
It is currently October 22 19, 3:29 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2764 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 277  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 11 16, 10:48 pm 
Offline
is shooing asian children away from his fridge.
User avatar

Joined: May 17 06, 10:23 pm
Posts: 27872
Location: at the gettin' place
Given how close the election ended up being you could point to any one event/demographic/trend etc and say it's the reason Hillary lost and not really be wrong. The hacked emails absolutely affected the race in a significant way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 11 16, 11:54 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Posts: 20100
Location: Low A Minors
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
So.......
...... you want me to believe that....

Russia is good enough to influence the potus election.
Trump is in cahoots with them.
But hillary was in no way affected.


I know there is not much room for nuance these days, but I'm going to try.

I think Russia *tried* to influence the election in Trump's favor, but unless more info comes out, I do not believe that was necessarily the deciding factor. Like I said, there were a million things that could have broken differently and tilted it in Hillary's favor. She ran a bad campaign.

And yes, I want you to consider that Trump is in cahoots with Russia. Why is Trump nominating so many guys with ties to Russia? Why were people in his campaign tied to Russia? Why was Donald Jr. telling people they were flooded with real estate investments from Russia? Why is he saying he wants to get tough on our NATO allies? Why are they not wanting to provide Ukraine with arms to fight Russia any more? There is just tons of smoke here.

Finally, Exxon could move forward with a half-trillion dollar deal with Russia if they can get the sanctions lifted. You don't think that Russia and Exxon aren't salivating over that? At a minimum, this is a massive conflict of interest. A conflict of interest doesn't mean there was foul play, but it means there is the APPEARANCE that there could have been foul play. It's bad for government officials to have conflicts of interest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 12:06 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer

Joined: April 25 06, 6:43 pm
Posts: 11488
Location: Austin
cardsfansince82 wrote:
Given how close the election ended up being you could point to any one event/demographic/trend etc and say it's the reason Hillary lost and not really be wrong. The hacked emails absolutely affected the race in a significant way.

Yup. There is no 'the reason' but if state sponsored actors hacked both the DNC and RNC but only released the DNC info, that seems, um, noteworthy even if there's no way to show what the electoral impact was. Also noteworthy when you oscillate between celebrating foreign intervention and denying that it occurred.

But yes, regardless, Americans, not Russians, are responsible for their own choices.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 7:58 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: April 18 06, 9:40 pm
Posts: 24486
pioneer98 wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
So.......
...... you want me to believe that....

Russia is good enough to influence the potus election.
Trump is in cahoots with them.
But hillary was in no way affected.


I know there is not much room for nuance these days, but I'm going to try.

I think Russia *tried* to influence the election in Trump's favor, but unless more info comes out, I do not believe that was necessarily the deciding factor. Like I said, there were a million things that could have broken differently and tilted it in Hillary's favor. She ran a bad campaign.

And yes, I want you to consider that Trump is in cahoots with Russia. Why is Trump nominating so many guys with ties to Russia? Why were people in his campaign tied to Russia? Why was Donald Jr. telling people they were flooded with real estate investments from Russia? Why is he saying he wants to get tough on our NATO allies? Why are they not wanting to provide Ukraine with arms to fight Russia any more? There is just tons of smoke here.

Finally, Exxon could move forward with a half-trillion dollar deal with Russia if they can get the sanctions lifted. You don't think that Russia and Exxon aren't salivating over that? At a minimum, this is a massive conflict of interest. A conflict of interest doesn't mean there was foul play, but it means there is the APPEARANCE that there could have been foul play. It's bad for government officials to have conflicts of interest.


I very much agree with this. Though I also think it's worth considering that the CIA is exaggerating the intervention in order to cause trouble for Trump. I could see them perceiving him as a threat to the US (I do too) and doing to us what the CIA has been known to do to other countries. What's troubling is between this and the Comey letter we've possibly got two federal intelligence/security agencies intentionally messing with our election, and in opposite directions.

I'm curious about the supposed RNC hack - the RNC claims it wasn't hacked, and they should know. Very possible they're lying, but why bother when emails could start coming out any day? I also wonder how the CIA would know they were hacked. It seems like it would be difficult from the outside to know whether a hack attempt was successful, unless they were given evidence by a third party.

Looking forward to seeing whatever evidence is released.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 8:42 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: October 12 06, 2:21 pm
Posts: 17071
Location: Baseball Ref Bullpen
ghostrunner wrote:
I very much agree with this. Though I also think it's worth considering that the CIA is exaggerating the intervention in order to cause trouble for Trump. I could see them perceiving him as a threat to the US (I do too) and doing to us what the CIA has been known to do to other countries. What's troubling is between this and the Comey letter we've possibly got two federal intelligence/security agencies intentionally messing with our election, and in opposite directions.

I'm curious about the supposed RNC hack - the RNC claims it wasn't hacked, and they should know. Very possible they're lying, but why bother when emails could start coming out any day? I also wonder how the CIA would know they were hacked. It seems like it would be difficult from the outside to know whether a hack attempt was successful, unless they were given evidence by a third party.

Looking forward to seeing whatever evidence is released.

Why should the RNC know they are hacked? Hackers at this level do everything they can to not be detected and its fairly easy to do that on systems that aren't actively looking for intrusions. I don't know if that is the case with the RNC but there are still many, many corporate entities oblivious to the danger.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 8:56 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: April 18 06, 9:40 pm
Posts: 24486
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:
I very much agree with this. Though I also think it's worth considering that the CIA is exaggerating the intervention in order to cause trouble for Trump. I could see them perceiving him as a threat to the US (I do too) and doing to us what the CIA has been known to do to other countries. What's troubling is between this and the Comey letter we've possibly got two federal intelligence/security agencies intentionally messing with our election, and in opposite directions.

I'm curious about the supposed RNC hack - the RNC claims it wasn't hacked, and they should know. Very possible they're lying, but why bother when emails could start coming out any day? I also wonder how the CIA would know they were hacked. It seems like it would be difficult from the outside to know whether a hack attempt was successful, unless they were given evidence by a third party.

Looking forward to seeing whatever evidence is released.

Why should the RNC know they are hacked? Hackers at this level do everything they can to not be detected and its fairly easy to do that on systems that aren't actively looking for intrusions. I don't know if that is the case with the RNC but there are still many, many corporate entities oblivious to the danger.


I guess I'm saying that if the CIA knows, then the RNC should know. Either they should be able to detect it, or they'd have the same evidence the CIA has. I find it hard to imagine a situation where the CIA knows, but RNC doesn't.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 9:08 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Posts: 20100
Location: Low A Minors
Arthur Dent wrote:
cardsfansince82 wrote:
Given how close the election ended up being you could point to any one event/demographic/trend etc and say it's the reason Hillary lost and not really be wrong. The hacked emails absolutely affected the race in a significant way.

Yup. There is no 'the reason' but if state sponsored actors hacked both the DNC and RNC but only released the DNC info, that seems, um, noteworthy even if there's no way to show what the electoral impact was. Also noteworthy when you oscillate between celebrating foreign intervention and denying that it occurred.

But yes, regardless, Americans, not Russians, are responsible for their own choices.


It's like blaming Matheny for the Cardinals missing the playoffs...Yes, he probably cost them a few games. But they sucked at baserunning. They sucked at defense. They sucked at situational hitting. They had injuries that hampered them. They didn't make a significant move at the deadline. The Dodgers got swept by the Giants the last 3 games of the season. All of these things together (and more) added up to the crappy result.

Hillary's list would look like: Going in, Hillary was widely disliked and has no charisma. She barely campaigned in the upper Midwest, because she didn't think she needed it. Polls were wrong. With better polls, maybe she allocates resources differently. The timing of the news, whether it happened on purpose or not, hurt her. If the pussy-grabber thing broke in the last week of the election, Trump probably loses. If someone besides Trump had been her opponent, maybe she wins. She also had a bad strategy to court moderate Republicans, almost all of which spurned her. At the same time she's trying to win moderate Republicans, she tried making parts of her platform more attractive to Bernie supporters, but she lacked the credibility to pull off that act, too. "America is already great" was dumb and she did not stress enough or at all as to how she was going to fight for working class voters. Etc. Of all the things I listed, the only thing that Russia could have MAYBE influenced was the timing of some of the news that broke.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 9:36 am 
Offline
Snayke's Bottomline
User avatar

Joined: August 3 16, 9:44 am
Posts: 3829
Rep. Mike McCaul said the RNC was hacked back in September and the FBI was investigating, but he kinda sorta walked it back and the RNC then denied it. So someone from the party is lying or telling a half-truth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 9:53 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: October 12 06, 2:21 pm
Posts: 17071
Location: Baseball Ref Bullpen
Farewell Friends wrote:
Rep. Mike McCaul said the RNC was hacked back in September and the FBI was investigating, but he kinda sorta walked it back and the RNC then denied it. So someone from the party is lying or telling a half-truth.

They all do on both sides of the aisle. That is what has led to this mess.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trump and Russia
PostPosted: December 12 16, 10:13 am 
Offline
is shooing asian children away from his fridge.
User avatar

Joined: May 17 06, 10:23 pm
Posts: 27872
Location: at the gettin' place
ghostrunner wrote:
I guess I'm saying that if the CIA knows, then the RNC should know. Either they should be able to detect it, or they'd have the same evidence the CIA has. I find it hard to imagine a situation where the CIA knows, but RNC doesn't.


I'm sure the CIA shared that with the RNC at some point, but it's very possible they discovered it during the course of looking into the source of the DNC attacks and the RNC wasn't aware until they were told.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2764 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 277  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: G. Keenan, InvincibleCakeEater and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group