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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 1 19, 6:17 pm 
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gone fission
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Location: Twin Cities, MN
This is a direct copy/paste from my FB wall with a racist former co-worker from New York. A few other friends chimed in here and there, but the majority of it is myself and a guy whose name I will change to Snot.

Spoiler: show
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-pardon-border-wall-construction-877562/?fbclid=IwAR0fSvknFpWyRh0GQyD_F0sI3vYxQPhQ2yIAKXHT--FyVQkjPx_XA1jkkoA

Josh (Me): This is beyond ridiculous and out of hand. Even if you support Trump's wall, how can anyone be okay with a president ordering it to be done no matter how many laws are broken in doing so or how much land is claimed by eminent domain?

Snot: Do what ever it takes. Should have been done 20 years ago. Enough of the bs, do what ever it takes and screw anyone that doesn’t like it. Enough is enough

Me: Snot so if you happened to live near the border, you'd be fine with the government seizing your house and all of your land without your consent? They can take your land but not your guns, huh?

Snot: Josh yes, by the way no houses are on the border. There is a zone, no build, no permit to build. If you built there anyway then tear it down.

Ben: Snot Except, that's not how the big boy world works. Just because our president wants something doesn't mean he should get it. If a president (any president, not just this one) proclaims to be above the law, then our country really does have a problem, and perhaps the wall that is needed is between Washington and the rest of the United States. As it stands, there is plenty of precedent that a wall will not solve immigration issues. Most agree we should do something about immigration, but the wall is a poorly educated man's solution to the problem.

Snot: Is a sanctuary city breaking the law? Is it aiding and abetting criminals? Is going across the boarder and escorting people in illegally a crime?

Nate: Listen Snot, I'm not for Sanctuary cities do to the crime swell in surrounding suburbs. I have other opinions on them as well. But you've got to stop picking and choosing. You cant support illegal activities in one sentence and then say illegals should get deported. Picking and choosing and taking out of context is why the current US is the way it is. It built up to a chaotic mess. Doing more wrong wont make a right.

Snot: Nate well I’m sick of the flip flop bs from liberals. I’m sick of the double standards. I’m sick of listening to bs responses like this one. I don’t care what has to happen, get the wall built. Seems liberals use every excuse and exercise every indignity in their cause. I’m done with it. Do what it takes to get the wall in place. We can work on civility again after.

Me: So break every law that is necessary, just get it done? Everything is on the table? Jesus, man. If you're so gung ho about it, take your mini-armory of guns you have and just have a nice little mass shooting at the border. You'll get a presidential pardon because it was done "for the wall to be put in place." Don't you see how that sounds? Having a leader actively encouraging workers to break laws and ignore environmental/government restrictions and regulations is not the way to heal this country from the political divide it is facing.

Kevin: Snot you are as hard headed as I always thought. Going to keep this simple ... you Suck!

Snot: Josh liberals break laws? Lies, cheating, anything it takes to prevent the wall?. I say f that, send the troops and start shooting if necessary, enough is enough. I have had it with the dodge ball.

Snot: Kevin if your an open borders guy, you suck. I’m sick of the bull and that’s what it is.

Kevin: Snot I am a let’s obey laws and not have totalitarian government guy. I stand by my comment you Suck. Enough of you!

Nate: First off, I'm not a liberal. But I also havent drunk the koolaid on either side. It seems someone in this thread has.

Snot: Kevin so you support the border, deportation of those here illegally, prosecution of those aiding and abetting criminals? Do you have a point then?

Snot: We should certainly be in agreement that the liberals have deployed all tactics legal and not to maintain an open boarder. If you think that those tactics are ok, then for me its war. Let's have a go

Snot: Nate so what is your neutral thoughts on this then.

Snot: Kevin if by hard headed that I'm informed and make decisions and not swayed by bs, then as always hard headed

Snot: Josh so, this must mean that you dont want laws broken and support deportations and to build the wall as soon as possible, legally

Kevin: Snot no I do not support illegal immigration. Come legally or don’t come at all. But i don’t support a dictator providing direction like this. I also don’t believe the wall is the answer (unless Mexico pays for it). I am for stronger immigration always have been. We obviously disagree but your style is as you say BS so for that matter I say as you say screw you!

Snot: Kevin pick a side or he a pansy

Snot: Kevin so pansy it is

Kevin: Snot any side you are not on and if we ever meet on the audit trail I would be glad to show you pansy...

Snot: Kevin bring I love to meet with the challenged

Me: Snot no, I don't support the wall. I think it's a giant waste of taxpayer's money and is a signal that we have turned a complete 180 from what America was founded on - immigration. I do not support illegal immigration. I do not believe immigrants coming here seeking sanctuary or asylum should be turned away, nor those that attempt to come here illegally should be tried as actual crimes (they should only be misdemeanors). For lifelong residents that came here illegally (Dreamers), they need a better path to citizenship. Some of these people came here when they were infants, have SSNs now, and pay taxes like the rest of us. Why should they be deported? Give them an easiee path to make them US citizens. For the illegal immigrants here for medical deferment, let them stay like they always have.

Snot: Kevin I'll be in your neighborhood tomorrow. Remember, I know things and dont subscribe to rules when threatened. I'm libel to leave you with a permanent reminder of why you should think before you [expletive] with me.

Snot: Josh so, your entire post is a bs ploy, as I have challenged and your responses and mine are accurate to the situation.

Me: Snot the irony is that what you wrote is libel, even though you meant to write liable.

Me: Snot How is my response a BS ploy? The wall is unconstitutional. Deporting someone who has lived here for 30 years and works harder than anyone else in order to make minimum wage in a slaughterhouse, thereby resulting in their elementary aged children coming home from school without parents, is not right. I know you're far from a humanitarian, you've shown that time and time again on here, and there is no swaying you from your radical right-wing neo-Nazi beliefs that id you're not part of the evangelical white community then you're not welcome in the US. So I don't know why I even bother responding at this point.

Snot: Josh well thank goodness for spell check

Snot: Josh show me, in the constitution where it talks about the wall.

Me: Snot I misspoke. Deportations for illegal immigrants that have assimilated into society are unconstitutional. The wall is just a huge waste of several billions of dollars of taxpayers money that won't at all succeed at what it's being built for.

Nate: Hold up, why do you say that Josh?

Chad: Snot so as long as the president says he'll pardon people for breaking the law for something you believe in it's okay. What happens when a president does it for laws that are broken you don't believe i

Me: Nate the 14th Amendment, and more specifically the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, as confirmed by Plyler v Doe in 1982 and later in US v Verdugo-Urquidez in 1990. Summary from Wikipedia: Texas officials had argued that illegal aliens were not "within the jurisdiction" of the state and thus could not claim protections under the Fourteenth Amendment. The court majority rejected this claim, finding instead that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident immigrants whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident immigrants whose entry was unlawful." The dissenting opinion also rejected this claim, agreeing with the Court that "the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies to immigrants who, after their illegal entry into this country, are indeed physically 'within the jurisdiction' of a state."

Snot: They are not citizens and have no rights

Me: Snot the Supreme Court disagrees

Nate: Josh Ah. Then I guess it comes down to defining how they benefit society in my opinion. But again, I believe in Australias proven and true method.

Me: Nate In my opinion, if they've assimilated into society, they're welcome to stay. Obviously I would prefer for them to be working towards US citizenship status, but as long as they are respectable members of society, I see no harm. Scott obviously disagrees with this since it seems like any immigrant is less than human in his eyes.

Nate: Josh This is what I meant. But yes.

Snot: Josh they are not citizens and do not have rights

Me: Snot once again you're wrong. The Supreme Court has legally ruled that they do.

Me: Snot You're fine to disagree with it, but they have rights whether or not they are US citizens.

Snot: Josh they do not belong here. They do not have rights

Me: Snot they do according to the US Constitution and the SCOTUS.

Snot: Josh they have the right to be deported

Me: Snot disagree all you want. I certainly disagree with SCOTUS ruling on the 2nd Amendment in DC, but as it is, their ruling is law. Just like their ruling on illegal immigrants. If you disagree with it, take it up with your local Representative or Senator.

Snot: Josh deport them all

Me: Snot I think you should be deported.


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 2 19, 5:59 am 
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Everday Unicorn
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Joined: April 21 06, 10:14 am
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Location: Austin, TX
Btw there are houses that go right up to the Rio Grande in south Texas. I’ve been there. I’ve seen them. I’m representing a city in a border wall condemnation case.


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 2 19, 7:05 am 
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I mean, how do you even try to reason with someone who can’t spell ‘border’?


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 2 19, 7:10 am 
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gone fission
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Joined: December 11 07, 4:15 pm
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Location: Twin Cities, MN
I'm still kind of sad that my libel joke went completely over his head.


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 2 19, 7:40 am 
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There's someone in my head but it's not me
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Location: Clowns to the left of me. Jokers to the right. Here I am.
Quote:
Snot: Kevin I'll be in your neighborhood tomorrow. Remember, I know things and dont subscribe to rules when threatened. I'm libel to leave you with a permanent reminder of why you should think before you [expletive] with me.

There are a lot of Snots out there today. How will they react on Weds Nov 4, 2020 to a new president-elect?


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 3 19, 6:46 am 
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gone fission
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Joined: December 11 07, 4:15 pm
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Location: Twin Cities, MN
Radbird wrote:
Quote:
Snot: Kevin I'll be in your neighborhood tomorrow. Remember, I know things and dont subscribe to rules when threatened. I'm libel to leave you with a permanent reminder of why you should think before you [expletive] with me.


There are a lot of Snots out there today. How will they react on Weds Nov 4, 2020 to a new president-elect?


This is a question I ask myself almost daily.


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 3 19, 6:56 am 
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Radbird wrote:
Quote:
Snot: Kevin I'll be in your neighborhood tomorrow. Remember, I know things and dont subscribe to rules when threatened. I'm libel to leave you with a permanent reminder of why you should think before you [expletive] with me.

There are a lot of Snots out there today. How will they react on Weds Nov 4, 2020 to a new president-elect?


How will they react after Jan 2021 when Cheeto Jesus is tried for obstruction and potentially other things, the Mueller Report is finally fully published, and the SDNY is backed up with Trump cronies to the point that they need to bring in help so they can continue to try non-Trump-related criminals?


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 3 19, 7:41 am 
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Swirls wrote:
Radbird wrote:
Quote:
Snot: Kevin I'll be in your neighborhood tomorrow. Remember, I know things and dont subscribe to rules when threatened. I'm libel to leave you with a permanent reminder of why you should think before you [expletive] with me.


There are a lot of Snots out there today. How will they react on Weds Nov 4, 2020 to a new president-elect?


This is a question I ask myself almost daily.



I am worried about the gun nut fringe and how they will react. But for lots and lots of Trump voters, the extent of their political organization involves wearing a red hat, sharing memes and voting. Probably 99% of them are not organizing themselves into groups or whatever, because they literally don't believe in political organizing. Maybe they will react to a Trump loss by going and standing by the courthouse with tea bags hanging from a cosplay revolutionary war hat like they did 10 years ago. Maybe they will get mad enough to win a heavily gerrymandered and voter-suppressed midterm election. We'll see. But that's what's so odd about the conservative movement - it's a movement that wants to get people really riled up about NOT organizing a movement. That's why it never sticks and why they have to cheat to win elections.


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 3 19, 8:10 am 
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Seeking a Zubaz seamstress

Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Posts: 24280
Location: St. Louis
How about ignoring the Snots in real world and especially in social media? Why have a FB friend like that?

Sometimes their own family and spouses don't want to hear their horse [expletive]. Why would.anyone else?

They crave an audience of same reasonable people. They are trying to convince themselves that their allegiance to racist reality TV show gasbag is logical

Let them lanquish at their sausage parties and social media circle jerks.


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 Post subject: Re: THE WALL
PostPosted: September 3 19, 8:40 am 
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Seeking a Zubaz seamstress

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Ok documentary the River and the Wall -my review
Spoiler: show
Watching "The River and The Wall"
99cents on Amazon.

Follows a group of 5 people with topic-relevant backgrounds traveling the Rio Grande stretch of the border. Sounds interesting eh?

I want to like it but haven't (I keep dozing off with ~ 20 minutes left)

It doesn't tell a story really. Documentaries don't require an overbearing central thesis - but this one is beyond random. Moves around disjointedly between the adventure travel, the group's character portraits, the politics (rather delicately --interviews Beto and GOP Rep Will Hurd ) and the ecology/environment and factoids.

Comes across contrived in all these areas. They do terrible jobs running their loaded canoes thru some class 3 rapids of the Rio Grande -this peaked my interest but it did nothing for the film.

The visuals of the actual border and wall vs the imagery in most our heads is interesting-it displays that ok , but here I am dozing off on it.

Grade C, but only because of scenery and I am now interested in paddling the canyon area of the Rio.

Edit bump to a B minus on the last 25-30 min. They have a thesis after all, and give time to the themes that matter. The Beto Will Hurd inclusions seem pertinent. Skip forward to last stretch of film.


There is a stretch they paddle thru where the Mexican side of river has people fishing having fun etc, US side is walled off a couple miles away.

Essentially the Wall cedes a valuable resource in the River to Mexico. Though I don't doubt our endless ability to siphon it off for some private interest. Environmentally, it is going to do a lot of damage -though it isn't a vacuum -some creatures will do better in the setting).

Anyways, arguments about whether it works or environment and even land grab from US - it is all just to satisfy racist whims of Orange King


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