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PostPosted: February 22 17, 8:40 am 
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I'm afraid all those statistics will tell a Trumpist "Jobs for Real Americans!".

What I don't understand about these orders is why doesn't it do anything to address the root cause?

Why are these people coming to this country? Would these people be taking their lives into their hands and leaving family and friends for an alien land just for the hell of it? Of course not. Because they know they can get work!

So where are the penalties and stepped up enforcement against business owners and individuals that hire illegals? I'm pretty sure if you address that effectively, you won't need a wall.


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 9:09 am 
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UK wrote:
Studies have shown that it will cost 400-600 billion to enforce mass deportation and take 20 years.

This doesn't include the additional 22+ billion to construct the wall, 1,000,000,000 per year it will cost to employ BP and ICE agents, as well as not including the equipment for 15K workers or their retirement plans in 20 years.

We'll off-set it 7 billion in tax cuts and repeal Obamacare which will cost 3 million jobs and 350 billion.

The cost of mass deportation on the economy:

Real GDP would drop by 1.7 trillion and economic growth would slow by 5.7%.

All of this for.....

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-18/ ... ly-s-story

Maybe we're going after the wrong illegals?

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thisisthat/this ... -1.3901188

great info UK.

excuse to bump
Tim Hortons?
Quote:
For a fee of $30,000 these "bonhommes" will forge Canadian documents (passport, driver's licence, Tim Horton's TimCard), create fake identities, and assist their clients across the U.S.-Canada border


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 9:50 am 
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You can definitely tell someone is a fake Canadian if they don't have a TimCard


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 10:34 am 
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pioneer98 wrote:
You can definitely tell someone is a fake Canadian if they don't have a TimCard

I've spent weeks driving the streets of Welland, Ontario at all hours of the day and night and I can attest that Tim's is ALWAYS busy. Canada might as well put their DMV's in Tim Horton's. It would save them a lot of money and make it much more convenient to renew your tags and registration.


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 12:05 pm 
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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
I'm afraid all those statistics will tell a Trumpist "Jobs for Real Americans!".

What I don't understand about these orders is why doesn't it do anything to address the root cause?

Why are these people coming to this country? Would these people be taking their lives into their hands and leaving family and friends for an alien land just for the hell of it? Of course not. Because they know they can get work!

So where are the penalties and stepped up enforcement against business owners and individuals that hire illegals? I'm pretty sure if you address that effectively, you won't need a wall.


It's an idiotic premise that all these great jobs are going to illegal immigrants: Our economy depends on them and there's a small part of me that enjoys those farm owners that voted for Trump as well as ACA owners that are upset and angry that he will try and follow-through on his moronic policies.

I'll refer to a comedic take on it...(NSFW)



As far as why don't they punish the people who are giving them the reason to come here is because this is nothing but fear-mongering. Those business owners create jobs (of course, they can only hire workers that can work well under minimum wage, no health insurance and no workers' rights, since how are they going to report them?).


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 1:32 pm 
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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
I'm afraid all those statistics will tell a Trumpist "Jobs for Real Americans!".

What I don't understand about these orders is why doesn't it do anything to address the root cause?

Why are these people coming to this country? Would these people be taking their lives into their hands and leaving family and friends for an alien land just for the hell of it? Of course not. Because they know they can get work!

So where are the penalties and stepped up enforcement against business owners and individuals that hire illegals? I'm pretty sure if you address that effectively, you won't need a wall.


Our country has a long history of importing cheap labor. We used slaves for as long as we could get away with it, then invented share cropping when slavery wasn't cool anymore. We've been importing Mexican and Central American laborers for over 100 years. The hypocrisy inherent in the villainizing of "illegal" immigrants is sickening because it is so [expletive] cruel.

The fact is huge sectors of our economy want and need these workers here illegally. If they are undocumented, they are forced to work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no healthcare, no safety, etc. etc. Agriculture, hospitality, home health care, construction, sanitation, child care, and the list goes on. Undocumented workers mean bigger profits for the CEO and shareholders, lower prices for consumers. Then of course you have the payroll taxes they pay into our social safety net, the sales taxes they generate, without being able to actually receive govt. benefits in return.

They are a win win for us lucky citizens and all they are trying to do is work hard, save up some money, and make a better life for their kids. Many legislators oppose a path the citizenship for these workers because to do so would mean the industries that finance their campaigns would have to start paying them and treating them like citizens.

The truth is the Trump has no clue how to improve the economy. If you can't keep the doors open at a casino where people walk in and literally just give you money, how the hell are you going to revamp the US industrial base? Much easier to just blame the "other" and scapegoat people who have no voice and very little legal protection.

If this goes down and Trump rounds up millions of people who have lived here for decades, hurting no one and benefiting everyone, it will be a scare on our national morality that we can never recover from.


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 1:57 pm 
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G. Keenan wrote:
If this goes down and Trump rounds up millions of people who have lived here for decades, hurting no one and benefiting everyone, it will be a scar on our national morality that we can never recover from.


Absolutely.


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 2:07 pm 
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G. Keenan wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
I'm afraid all those statistics will tell a Trumpist "Jobs for Real Americans!".

What I don't understand about these orders is why doesn't it do anything to address the root cause?

Why are these people coming to this country? Would these people be taking their lives into their hands and leaving family and friends for an alien land just for the hell of it? Of course not. Because they know they can get work!

So where are the penalties and stepped up enforcement against business owners and individuals that hire illegals? I'm pretty sure if you address that effectively, you won't need a wall.


Our country has a long history of importing cheap labor. We used slaves for as long as we could get away with it, then invented share cropping when slavery wasn't cool anymore. We've been importing Mexican and Central American laborers for over 100 years. The hypocrisy inherent in the villainizing of "illegal" immigrants is sickening because it is so [expletive] cruel.

The fact is huge sectors of our economy want and need these workers here illegally. If they are undocumented, they are forced to work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no healthcare, no safety, etc. etc. Agriculture, hospitality, home health care, construction, sanitation, child care, and the list goes on. Undocumented workers mean bigger profits for the CEO and shareholders, lower prices for consumers. Then of course you have the payroll taxes they pay into our social safety net, the sales taxes they generate, without being able to actually receive govt. benefits in return.

They are a win win for us lucky citizens and all they are trying to do is work hard, save up some money, and make a better life for their kids. Many legislators oppose a path the citizenship for these workers because to do so would mean the industries that finance their campaigns would have to start paying them and treating them like citizens.

The truth is the Trump has no clue how to improve the economy. If you can't keep the doors open at a casino where people walk in and literally just give you money, how the hell are you going to revamp the US industrial base? Much easier to just blame the "other" and scapegoat people who have no voice and very little legal protection.

If this goes down and Trump rounds up millions of people who have lived here for decades, hurting no one and benefiting everyone, it will be a scare on our national morality that we can never recover from.


Deportations are tougher to combat, compared to travel ban. No checks and balances for the poor immigrants. Hell, TrumpGOP is denying civil rights to poor US citizens - immigrants don't stand a chance. Protests, sharing stories of people you know, resisting- that just shows the [expletive] where to look.

My brother has an illegal immigrant ex-student, a good one - they tried unsuccessfully to help her get into college. He could attempt to contact thru FB, but doesn't want to draw attention to her. Unlike the travel ban, where everybody was telling their story, you have to think twice about it as an illegal immigrant. If this goes down, there's chances it happens right in front of us - but without much notice (or at least not as much notice as merited).


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 2:33 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
I'm afraid all those statistics will tell a Trumpist "Jobs for Real Americans!".

What I don't understand about these orders is why doesn't it do anything to address the root cause?

Why are these people coming to this country? Would these people be taking their lives into their hands and leaving family and friends for an alien land just for the hell of it? Of course not. Because they know they can get work!

So where are the penalties and stepped up enforcement against business owners and individuals that hire illegals? I'm pretty sure if you address that effectively, you won't need a wall.


Our country has a long history of importing cheap labor. We used slaves for as long as we could get away with it, then invented share cropping when slavery wasn't cool anymore. We've been importing Mexican and Central American laborers for over 100 years. The hypocrisy inherent in the villainizing of "illegal" immigrants is sickening because it is so [expletive] cruel.

The fact is huge sectors of our economy want and need these workers here illegally. If they are undocumented, they are forced to work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no healthcare, no safety, etc. etc. Agriculture, hospitality, home health care, construction, sanitation, child care, and the list goes on. Undocumented workers mean bigger profits for the CEO and shareholders, lower prices for consumers. Then of course you have the payroll taxes they pay into our social safety net, the sales taxes they generate, without being able to actually receive govt. benefits in return.

They are a win win for us lucky citizens and all they are trying to do is work hard, save up some money, and make a better life for their kids. Many legislators oppose a path the citizenship for these workers because to do so would mean the industries that finance their campaigns would have to start paying them and treating them like citizens.

The truth is the Trump has no clue how to improve the economy. If you can't keep the doors open at a casino where people walk in and literally just give you money, how the hell are you going to revamp the US industrial base? Much easier to just blame the "other" and scapegoat people who have no voice and very little legal protection.

If this goes down and Trump rounds up millions of people who have lived here for decades, hurting no one and benefiting everyone, it will be a scare on our national morality that we can never recover from.


Deportations are tougher to combat, compared to travel ban. No checks and balances for the poor immigrants. Hell, TrumpGOP is denying civil rights to poor US citizens - immigrants don't stand a chance. Protests, sharing stories of people you know, resisting- that just shows the [expletive] where to look.

My brother has an illegal immigrant ex-student, a good one - they tried unsuccessfully to help her get into college. He could attempt to contact thru FB, but doesn't want to draw attention to her. Unlike the travel ban, where everybody was telling their story, you have to think twice about it as an illegal immigrant. If this goes down, there's chances it happens right in front of us - but without much notice (or at least not as much notice as merited).


Like with the travel ban, he may find it harder to do this than he thinks. Domestically, most people who are here illegally did not swim across the Rio Grande or come over Niagara Falls in a barrel. They came here legally on some kind of Visa; tourist, temporary worker, etc. and never left. Those people are not "undocumented" and have recourse in the legal system to delay their deportation through appeals.

Also, deporting people requires the cooperation of the country to which you want to deport them. Those countries must furnish them with the necessary travel documents to enter. Given the hostility of the Trump admin to countries like Mexico there is no guarantee that they will be very cooperative when it comes to repatriating their own citizens, or detaining future asylum seekers on their soil while their claim processes in the US.

Everyone agrees that violent criminals and dangerous people here illegally should be deported. Rounding up people who pose no threat to society is going to have soooooooo many unintended consequences. What do we do with the kids who are US citizens who no longer have parents because they have been deported? What do we do about all the US citizens who are financially dependent on illegals? Who foots the bill for that? Who foots the bill for the detention centers we have to staff when countries like Mexico and Poland don't just roll over and agree to help the Trump admin deport their citizens? All manner of businesses will incur costs when their employees don't show up to work one day because they have been arrested.

Net migration of Mexican nationals to the US since 2008 is zero. Mexico has been very cooperative with the US when it comes do detaining migrants transiting through Mexico trying to get to the US and deporting them back to their home countries. Why should Mexico continue to do so when the US is targeting it's citizens here? What happens to their economy when remittances from family members working in the US sending money back home plummet. Where will those people go looking for work?

It's going to be such a humanitarian and economic cluster [expletive].

If Trump wants to raise wages for the types of jobs now filled by illegal immigrants he should be offering them a path to citizenship, raising the minimum wage, cutting the red tape for farmers to get temporary worker visas to harvest their crops, and cracking down on the big businesses that hire illegal workers in the first place.


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PostPosted: February 22 17, 2:39 pm 
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Is this fake?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661


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