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PostPosted: October 3 18, 9:50 am 
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Jocephus wrote:
he made a [expletive] ton before him too


Yes that was a trolling comment. I love it. A companies employees are allowing it to be insanely profitable and they are giving it back to the employees. Honestly it’s probably not enough. Bezos will still make millions everyday, he’s still paying them below what they are worth. He’s still the 1% of the 1% you hate so much but he threw you a cookie.

I don’t like the $15 min wage because you can’t convince me that some jobs are worth that. It will cause automation, run companies with tighter margins out of business and ultimately result in more monopolies.


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 10:17 am 
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I think everybody needs to stop focusing on the actual number such as $15/hour and whether a certain job is worth $15/hour. What matters to me is that if a person works 40 hours a week, they should be able to afford to live above the freaking poverty line no matter what they do. I don't care if they clean toilets or pick up trash in a park. If you are working 40 hours a week then you should be able to live without welfare or other public assistance. In some cities sure, that means $15 or more per hour, in others, less than $15/hour. Somebody has to do the sh!t jobs and serve us our cheap fast food burgers. That person should be able to afford to be able to pay their bills regardless.

If that means that somebody ends up making more per hour than me then my response shouldn't be to say that the person flipping burgers is overpaid, my response should be that I'm underpaid and need to do something about that. Wanting to keep people in poverty because they would be making close to what I make is not OK. Of course the problem with that is those at the top are never going to sacrifice their profits so if I get more, prices go up and now suddenly those at the bottom are no longer able to live above the poverty line. This makes no sense in a country that has as many resources and land (much of it completely undeveloped and completely unused) as the United States.

Make no mistake, we are literally in this position because of humanity's tendency to be greedy. We have more than enough land and resources to provide for every single person in our country and then some. It is our insistence on using those resources to gain wealth/superiority over others (including the use of racism, xenophobia, etc. towards those means) that results in the insane wealth gap and dysfunctional society that we have today.

In the end, our economy from farm to factories and everything in between will eventually be fully automated. I believe there is even a brothel in Canada that is stocked with sex dolls. Even the world's oldest profession is going to end up automated in the end. It won't happen in our lifetime or probably even that of our great grandchildren but it will happen. At that point there just won't be many jobs and we're going to have to rely on same form of Universal Basic Income. I say just f'ing doing it now because I'm tired of the BS surrounding what is fair pay and what isn't.


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 10:45 am 
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tlombard wrote:
I think everybody needs to stop focusing on the actual number such as $15/hour and whether a certain job is worth $15/hour. What matters to me is that if a person works 40 hours a week, they should be able to afford to live above the freaking poverty line no matter what they do. I don't care if they clean toilets or pick up trash in a park. If you are working 40 hours a week then you should be able to live without welfare or other public assistance. In some cities sure, that means $15 or more per hour, in others, less than $15/hour. Somebody has to do the sh!t jobs and serve us our cheap fast food burgers. That person should be able to afford to be able to pay their bills regardless.
.


So what about the small business owner that the government runs out of business because his margins are smaller and he can’t pay workers $15? Run them all out of business so all we have left are big faceless corporations?

I’d like to see more profit sharing I think you’d see things better all the way around the if you just increase the min wage. Min wage workers are still going to be upset they make min wage.


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 11:39 am 
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Diddy wrote:
tlombard wrote:
I think everybody needs to stop focusing on the actual number such as $15/hour and whether a certain job is worth $15/hour. What matters to me is that if a person works 40 hours a week, they should be able to afford to live above the freaking poverty line no matter what they do. I don't care if they clean toilets or pick up trash in a park. If you are working 40 hours a week then you should be able to live without welfare or other public assistance. In some cities sure, that means $15 or more per hour, in others, less than $15/hour. Somebody has to do the sh!t jobs and serve us our cheap fast food burgers. That person should be able to afford to be able to pay their bills regardless.
.


So what about the small business owner that the government runs out of business because his margins are smaller and he can’t pay workers $15? Run them all out of business so all we have left are big faceless corporations?

I’d like to see more profit sharing I think you’d see things better all the way around the if you just increase the min wage. Min wage workers are still going to be upset they make min wage.



Wait - I was told if the minimum wage was increased to $15/hour that business owners would simply implement more automation.

People are not upset they make the minimum. They are upset they can't afford rent, or health care or other basic needs.


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 12:05 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
Diddy wrote:
tlombard wrote:
I think everybody needs to stop focusing on the actual number such as $15/hour and whether a certain job is worth $15/hour. What matters to me is that if a person works 40 hours a week, they should be able to afford to live above the freaking poverty line no matter what they do. I don't care if they clean toilets or pick up trash in a park. If you are working 40 hours a week then you should be able to live without welfare or other public assistance. In some cities sure, that means $15 or more per hour, in others, less than $15/hour. Somebody has to do the sh!t jobs and serve us our cheap fast food burgers. That person should be able to afford to be able to pay their bills regardless.
.


So what about the small business owner that the government runs out of business because his margins are smaller and he can’t pay workers $15? Run them all out of business so all we have left are big faceless corporations?

I’d like to see more profit sharing I think you’d see things better all the way around the if you just increase the min wage. Min wage workers are still going to be upset they make min wage.



Wait - I was told if the minimum wage was increased to $15/hour that business owners would simply implement more automation.

People are not upset they make the minimum. They are upset they can't afford rent, or health care or other basic needs.


Bigger companies will automate, not all will be able to afford to. Not all jobs can be replaced by animation at this time. Smaller companies will get ran out of business. In most cases something will replace them. Instead of calling a small business owner and getting help you’ll be able to call a number and press numbers trying to figure out how to get to the option that you want. Who knows when you’ll get help, they are the only game in town they will get to you when they get to you.

People are upset if they make min wage, they are going to be upset that they make min wage regardless of what it is. If we agreed that $500 a week is enough to afford those things they will be upset because someone has a nicer car, someone has a nicer house or a ps4 is a basic need. , the man is sticking it to them. What about two income houses do they make half as much because two are working?


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 3:55 pm 
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In the end, the issue is bigger than just what minimum wage is. I don't have the answer. I'm just saying that if you work 40 hours a week then you shouldn't have to live in freaking poverty. A rise in minimum wage might run some smaller businesses out if nothing else changes. At the same time, if the person sweeping floors across the street can suddenly afford to pay their bills and have a couple of pennies left over... maybe they are able to support these hypothetical small businesses which make more money and can afford to pay higher wages.

That's kind of what I mean by not fixating on an actual number for an hourly wage. The issue is every bit as much actual cost of living in addition to salaries. The entire system is broken right now and a lot of that has to do with investors/owners/etc. at the top insisting that the people who run the business they have a financial stake in squeeze every dime out of the rest of us as they can. There are people with trust funds making stupid amounts of money by literally doing nothing but letting a financial adviser manage their investments while people are doing actual work full time or more and living below the poverty line. This imbalance cannot last forever.

Somebody making minimum wage can't afford to buy a house so they end up renting. The place that they rent, whether it is a house or an apartment, costs X amount of dollars to build and keep up. The renter then pays X+Y to the person or company that owns the place they are renting which makes money for the landlord but the minimum wage worker is paying MORE than what the place to live actually costs. I'm not saying get rid of landlords, commercial real estate companies at all. I'm just saying that our current system is broken and everything costs more when you make minimum wage or less.

Of course, the answer in all of this is simple. The people with all the money need to stop being so greedy and actually be willing to share with those that make the money for them instead of hording every single cent that they can get away with. Like that will ever happen.


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 7:00 pm 
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Amazon workers losing stock bonuses for new wage.


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PostPosted: October 3 18, 7:51 pm 
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I was anticipating something like that or the raised wages would really be amazon.com store credit lol.

Amazon just feels diabolical.


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PostPosted: October 4 18, 5:46 am 
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Bezos could give away/lose $60B and still be the richest person in the world.


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PostPosted: October 4 18, 6:12 am 
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obucard wrote:


Sounds like a pay cut


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