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PostPosted: August 17 17, 10:51 am 
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Diddy wrote:
themiddle54 wrote:
Diddy wrote:
Please don't take Gods name in vain, it's very offensive.


Nazis are offensive. People equivocating Hillary Clinton to Trump is offensive. Trump voters are offensive.

Saying "god damn" something is harmless.


No it's not, it is offensive to Christians. You may not be one so you may not care. Is that the message you want to say? If something doesn't bother me then it's not offensive? That seems like the counter argument to these statues being taken down.

Point of view is always fun.


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PostPosted: August 17 17, 10:52 am 
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pivot from statues


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PostPosted: August 17 17, 10:56 am 
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Riddle me this: If these statues are just about "southern heritage," why are they all over the country in places that had nothing to do with the Confederacy? Why are there statues to Robert E Lee in New York City and Minnesota? Answer, because they were put up a long time after the civil war as a celebration of white supremacy. Is it any wonder that to this day these statues are being used a rallying cry for white supremacists? They do not represent anything else. If "white people," whatever that means, or southerners want to build monuments to their heritage then put up statues of writers, artists, musicians, or politicians that don't have anything to do with fighting to preserve slavery. Surely we have plenty of those people in history we could honor, no?

The slippery slope argument Trump tried to make is total nonsense. Nobody is seriously suggesting we go around the county taking down statues of the founding fathers. The odd person here or there calling for that does not represent how most of our culture feels about these figures. We can simultaneously honor men like George Washington while having a discussion about their participation in slavery and the contradictions inherent in that.

America is a place full of contradiction. Real life always is. What's important is not how true the founding fathers were to the words they wrote, but that we who are alive today strive to fulfill those words and realize the potential of a free people governing themselves with equality under the law. How to Confederate statues in public parks help us to make this a more perfect union?

If there weren't still too many white supremacists in this country these statues would not have the power that they do. They'd probably still all be up in your local park getting pooped on by pigeons and slept under by homeless people. If Dylan Roof hadn't murdered those poor people in Charleston this whole episode might never have happened.


Last edited by G. Keenan on August 17 17, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:00 am 
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Diddy wrote:
Michael wrote:
Diddy wrote:
Michael wrote:

Confederate statues belong in museums and specific historic locations where they can be given proper context.


Do you think they will be allowed in those museums and specific locations?


Yes.

Why don't you think they'll be allowed in museums? Is that something anyone is disagreeing with? Do people seriously protest museums that seriously explore WW2 Nazi propaganda devices and/or other dark chapters in world history?


It's been nearly a year ago but protestors in NYC demanded a statue of pres Roosevelt be removed because he was racist. It would not supprise me if a CSA museum filled with statues would be met with protests and vandalism.


My point is that's extremely rare and not something that is remotely mainstream. I don't this is should be a huge concern.

Let's say we lived in a world where we took down these statues and there wasn't a movement to remove other statues like Washington's. Would you be okay with removing these confederate statues or do you have other objections?


Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
The Confederacy is where it stops IMO. Other than this one Chicago pastor's opinion, I don't see anyone else seriously talking about taking any of the Founding Fathers out of circulation.

And I, bleeding heart liberal pinko [expletive] that I am, would oppose taking them down. They weren't erected for the purpose of projecting white supremacy like the bulk of the Confederate statues were around the turn of the last century. In fact, they were erected to celebrate the founding generation's commitment to 'Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness' for "We The People". Even if, at the time, they had to restrict the definition of 'People' to hold the coalition together.


Well stated.

pioneer98 wrote:
I'd be OK if they took down the Bill Clinton statue in Rapid City, though.

Image


Conversely, this awful confederate statue is so bad I kinda love it and I have mixed feelings about it being removed:

Image


Quote:
An allegory of the American South: In 1998, a fierce racist (who also happened to be the former attorney of Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassin) named Jack Kershaw created a monument for another bad man, Confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest. The resulting statue is so hilariously stupid that we should keep it forever.


Link


Last edited by Michael on August 17 17, 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:01 am 
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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
Diddy wrote:
Michael wrote:
Diddy I don't think you're asking unfair questions.

They might very well be allowed in museums. They'd have problems for a week or two then everyone would forget about it our country has a short attention span, no one has even mentioned NK this week.

And I can't imagine anyone objecting to their placement in Confederate cemeteries. Seems rather appropriate actually.



I've been thinking a lot about the Confederate cemetery on Arsenal Island, located less than half a mile from where I am right now. I can't recall, but it's either the biggest or 2nd biggest Confederate cemetery. The island was a prison for captured Confederate troops. The conditions were terrible and it was overwhelmed. Disease went through and killed a majority of the captured troops, and some Union troops. It was not a bright spot for the Union.

Seems like a monument that would be a remembrance of the people who died there might be better than some kind of homage to a specific person who didn't die there. Something as an homage to prisoners of war, maybe.


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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:06 am 
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Why are you guys so antiher?


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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:24 am 
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Maybe every confederate general statue could be replaced with a statue of Mark Twain or William Faulkner. That would be a better way to commemorate southern history and heritage.

Or Colonel Sanders, if we insist on colonels being on statues. That actually would be the most appropriately American monument.


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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:29 am 
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heyzeus wrote:
Maybe every confederate general statue could be replaced with a statue of Mark Twain or William Faulkner. That would be a better way to commemorate southern history and heritage.

Or Colonel Sanders, if we insist on colonels being on statues. That actually would be the most appropriately American monument.


I vote for the Norm MacDonald version...

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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:43 am 
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heyzeus wrote:
Maybe every confederate general statue could be replaced with a statue of Mark Twain or William Faulkner. That would be a better way to commemorate southern history and heritage.

Or Colonel Sanders, if we insist on colonels being on statues. That actually would be the most appropriately American monument.


Yosemite Sam, please


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PostPosted: August 17 17, 11:51 am 
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Jocephus wrote:
pivot from statues


I'm not trying to piviot from the statues. That statue is harmless, it's bronze or copper or whatever it's mDe of. It isn't going to jump down and start lynching blacks. What's wrong with it is that people are offended by it and what it represents to them.

So it doesn't bother a person or group, is that group supposed to try and see the other persons point of view and try to help them or are they supposed to say that statue isn't going to hurt you, discussion closed.


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