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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 2:55 pm 
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G. Keenan wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Ah yes, the good 'ol American automaker strategy to focus on trucks and SUVs because gas prices are cheap. What could possibly go wrong?


Their alternative right now is to produce a bunch of cars that no one is buying. I get it--we Americans have an almost unhealthy obsession with buying large vehicles that most of us don't need. But that isn't GM's problem to solve. They used to still sell cars overseas. That's changed. The future is "smart" vehicles and at least in the near-term large vehicles. If they want to stay alive as a business, they have to read the market.


But the GOP cut the corporate tax rate so that corps. could hire more workers and Trump said on Twitter that he's the greatest job creator ever and all the manufacturing jobs are back already.

So I don't know what you are talking about. It can't be true that American companies are planning for late 21st century capitalism while the federal govt. offers economic policy out of 1975.


G. Keenan wrote:
So what does GM do, say, 3 years from now when gas prices are back up, SUV and truck sales dive, and self-driving electric cars and the infrastructure needed to support them is still 10 years away?


I'm not sure what you think the alternative is for GM right now. They've built great cars over the past several years. People who buy cars still opt for foreign cars instead. People buy the crap out of GM trucks and SUV's. They can keep manufacturing cars that people aren't buying, but that's only going to lead to bankruptcy.

Show of hands--who here drives a newer GM car or has even heavily considered buying one in the past several years?


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 2:59 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Ah yes, the good 'ol American automaker strategy to focus on trucks and SUVs because gas prices are cheap. What could possibly go wrong?


Their alternative right now is to produce a bunch of cars that no one is buying. I get it--we Americans have an almost unhealthy obsession with buying large vehicles that most of us don't need. But that isn't GM's problem to solve. They used to still sell cars overseas. That's changed. The future is "smart" vehicles and at least in the near-term large vehicles. If they want to stay alive as a business, they have to read the market.


But the GOP cut the corporate tax rate so that corps. could hire more workers and Trump said on Twitter that he's the greatest job creator ever and all the manufacturing jobs are back already.

So I don't know what you are talking about. It can't be true that American companies are planning for late 21st century capitalism while the federal govt. offers economic policy out of 1975.


G. Keenan wrote:
So what does GM do, say, 3 years from now when gas prices are back up, SUV and truck sales dive, and self-driving electric cars and the infrastructure needed to support them is still 10 years away?


I'm not sure what you think the alternative is for GM right now. They've built great cars over the past several years. People who buy cars still opt for foreign cars instead. People buy the crap out of GM trucks and SUV's. They can keep manufacturing cars that people aren't buying, but that's only going to lead to bankruptcy.

Show of hands--who here drives a newer GM car or has even heavily considered buying one in the past several years?


Ford. So kinda. But to your point, tried to get my wife to look at GM and Ford but will only look at Nissan for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:09 pm 
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I've heavily considered Buicks and Cadillacs, but yeah my wife tends to think those are old man cars.

We technically have a GM car built in the last decade (barely) - a 2008 Saab. I think that's the decision that GM wrongly made during the auto crisis - they killed the niche auto brands that had some room for growth. They could have kept Saturn (Japanese competitors), Saab (European competitors), and Pontiac (high performance) divisions and kept Cadillac selling luxury cars. Chevy and GMC make the trucks / SUV's along with the marquee sports cars (Corvette/Camaro). Buick has actually done OK, but when you have to consistently market on a platform of "hey! these aren't old person cars!" that's probably not good.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:12 pm 
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Sucking on the Rally Nipple
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Popeye_Card wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Ah yes, the good 'ol American automaker strategy to focus on trucks and SUVs because gas prices are cheap. What could possibly go wrong?


Their alternative right now is to produce a bunch of cars that no one is buying. I get it--we Americans have an almost unhealthy obsession with buying large vehicles that most of us don't need. But that isn't GM's problem to solve. They used to still sell cars overseas. That's changed. The future is "smart" vehicles and at least in the near-term large vehicles. If they want to stay alive as a business, they have to read the market.


But the GOP cut the corporate tax rate so that corps. could hire more workers and Trump said on Twitter that he's the greatest job creator ever and all the manufacturing jobs are back already.

So I don't know what you are talking about. It can't be true that American companies are planning for late 21st century capitalism while the federal govt. offers economic policy out of 1975.


G. Keenan wrote:
So what does GM do, say, 3 years from now when gas prices are back up, SUV and truck sales dive, and self-driving electric cars and the infrastructure needed to support them is still 10 years away?


I'm not sure what you think the alternative is for GM right now. They've built great cars over the past several years. People who buy cars still opt for foreign cars instead. People buy the crap out of GM trucks and SUV's. They can keep manufacturing cars that people aren't buying, but that's only going to lead to bankruptcy.

Show of hands--who here drives a newer GM car or has even heavily considered buying one in the past several years?


Oh, I get what you're saying. Short term they are pivoting to the vehicles that are selling well now, long term they are moving away from internal combustion cars altogether. It's smart.

Me, I don't own a car and haven't for the past 10 years. No need where I live. Maybe GM can come up with a self-driving electric robot taxi that I can call on demand.

My boss is a GM guy and just bought a new Malibu, though. He's 65. Seems like a great car.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:14 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
I've heavily considered Buicks and Cadillacs, but yeah my wife tends to think those are old man cars.

We technically have a GM car built in the last decade (barely) - a 2008 Saab. I think that's the decision that GM wrongly made during the auto crisis - they killed the niche auto brands that had some room for growth. They could have kept Saturn (Japanese competitors), Saab (European competitors), and Pontiac (high performance) divisions and kept Cadillac selling luxury cars. Chevy and GMC make the trucks / SUV's along with the marquee sports cars (Corvette/Camaro). Buick has actually done OK, but when you have to consistently market on a platform of "hey! these aren't old person cars!" that's probably not good.


Especially when you remember they did the same thing to Oldsmobile 30 years ago and it killed the line.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:23 pm 
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I'm thinking had they kept Pontiac instead of Buick....

* Verano is the Grand Am - up the performance specs a bit and downgrade a bit on the luxury. This car could probably sell better.
* Regal is the Grand Prix - basically change nothing. The Regal is a pretty nice sports car as-is, but sold under an "affordable luxury" brand. This definitely sells better.
* Take the higher end Camaros and make them Firebirds.
* Come out with a real GTO that competes with the Challenger market.

The turbo engines they are putting in Buicks now are basically what they should have done for Pontiac before - making high performance Chevys instead of just re-badged Chevys.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:32 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
Show of hands--who here drives a newer GM car or has even heavily considered buying one in the past several years?


My wife had 2010 Malibu when we got married. I honestly didnt know you could get a Malibu with that many options and it was a nice car. It did however have issues. It didn’t get great MPG, while the trunk was big the opening was small. Couldn’t get a stroller in and out if it. I didn’t have headroom. The fact that Malibu’s are popular with rent a car places and resale is horrible.

We didn’t want to have to take the car seat out every time we had to fold down the back seat to get the stroller out so we got rid of it. Got a VW Passat and loved it. When we added our third kid we got an Yukon but wife still drove the Passat till VW bought it back from us and she now drives a Jetta. We tried to stick with GM products but VW had better options.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:35 pm 
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Joined: April 18 06, 7:45 pm
Posts: 3636
Popeye_Card wrote:
I'm thinking had they kept Pontiac instead of Buick....

* Verano is the Grand Am - up the performance specs a bit and downgrade a bit on the luxury. This car could probably sell better.
* Regal is the Grand Prix - basically change nothing. The Regal is a pretty nice sports car as-is, but sold under an "affordable luxury" brand. This definitely sells better.
* Take the higher end Camaros and make them Firebirds.
* Come out with a real GTO that competes with the Challenger market.

The turbo engines they are putting in Buicks now are basically what they should have done for Pontiac before - making high performance Chevys instead of just re-badged Chevys.


I’m a Pontiac man, GM royally screwed up what they were doing with Pontiac. I could write a book on that and I still get pissed thinking about it. That said the reason Buick lived on and the rest of the GM lineup was discontinued is because of its sales in China.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 3:46 pm 
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Buick exists because they are popular in China otherwise the brand would be dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Reform
PostPosted: November 26 18, 4:00 pm 
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There are aftermarket companies that will sell you a Trans Am. I think GM could be successful if they would pair up with someone like SLP and offer a Trans Am.


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