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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 11:51 am 
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vinsanity wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
Why are we suggesting it’s a good idea to build the wall? and at what cost?

I watched the Real Time piece Tim mentioned and there's a little more to it than that. The exchange went something like this:

Sullivan: We all agree the wall is not feasible right?
Maher: It's stupid and won't do anything.
Sullivan: Right, but we also agree there'll never actually be a 30' concrete wall. Even if it was approved it'd take much more than a hypothetical Trump two terms and would probably never get started.
Maher: It's just not practical.
Sullivan: So just give it to them. Have the Democrats say they'll let Trump have his wall knowing there's no way they'll ever find funding to actually get it built. Save CHIP and DACA and at least give the appearance to being tough on immigration for middle America.

So he wasn't saying the wall is a good idea; just that they should let them have their symbolic victory knowing that full plans for the wall would never be actualized.


I assume Schumer was thinking same when it was “on the table”.


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 12:07 pm 
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Most of the presumed 2020 nominees are on this list



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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 12:26 pm 
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lukethedrifter wrote:
vinsanity wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
Why are we suggesting it’s a good idea to build the wall? and at what cost?

I watched the Real Time piece Tim mentioned and there's a little more to it than that. The exchange went something like this:

Sullivan: We all agree the wall is not feasible right?
Maher: It's stupid and won't do anything.
Sullivan: Right, but we also agree there'll never actually be a 30' concrete wall. Even if it was approved it'd take much more than a hypothetical Trump two terms and would probably never get started.
Maher: It's just not practical.
Sullivan: So just give it to them. Have the Democrats say they'll let Trump have his wall knowing there's no way they'll ever find funding to actually get it built. Save CHIP and DACA and at least give the appearance to being tough on immigration for middle America.

So he wasn't saying the wall is a good idea; just that they should let them have their symbolic victory knowing that full plans for the wall would never be actualized.


I assume Schumer was thinking same when it was “on the table”.


At this point I'm all for giving in on the wall issue if it will get movement on something that is actually pertinent to the current state of our country. I think the wall is a stupid idea that won't do anything except cost money but I'm tired of the debate and the issue being used as leverage with regards to other things that are actually important. Just let him have that one. I agree that it will never get built and if it does, it won't actually accomplish anything that Trump and his supporters think it will.

I wish I could remember exactly where I saw this but apparently US 'special forces' spent days testing the prototypes that were built and were not able to get through or over them. I was going to post a link here and make fun of the article but I was on the bus and couldn't remember my password to the site to post from my phone (my work laptop automatically logs me in).

I put 'special forces' like that because if our special forces can't defeat a 30 feet wall with days to try and figure out how and access to equipment (jackhammers were mentioned along with other things) then our 'special forces' are nothing to brag about. Seriously, all you need to breach a 30 foot wall is an extension ladder to get you up the front side and then a freaking rope ladder to get you down the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 12:47 pm 
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tlombard wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
vinsanity wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
Why are we suggesting it’s a good idea to build the wall? and at what cost?

I watched the Real Time piece Tim mentioned and there's a little more to it than that. The exchange went something like this:

Sullivan: We all agree the wall is not feasible right?
Maher: It's stupid and won't do anything.
Sullivan: Right, but we also agree there'll never actually be a 30' concrete wall. Even if it was approved it'd take much more than a hypothetical Trump two terms and would probably never get started.
Maher: It's just not practical.
Sullivan: So just give it to them. Have the Democrats say they'll let Trump have his wall knowing there's no way they'll ever find funding to actually get it built. Save CHIP and DACA and at least give the appearance to being tough on immigration for middle America.

So he wasn't saying the wall is a good idea; just that they should let them have their symbolic victory knowing that full plans for the wall would never be actualized.


I assume Schumer was thinking same when it was “on the table”.


At this point I'm all for giving in on the wall issue if it will get movement on something that is actually pertinent to the current state of our country. I think the wall is a stupid idea that won't do anything except cost money but I'm tired of the debate and the issue being used as leverage with regards to other things that are actually important. Just let him have that one. I agree that it will never get built and if it does, it won't actually accomplish anything that Trump and his supporters think it will.

I wish I could remember exactly where I saw this but apparently US 'special forces' spent days testing the prototypes that were built and were not able to get through or over them. I was going to post a link here and make fun of the article but I was on the bus and couldn't remember my password to the site to post from my phone (my work laptop automatically logs me in).

I put 'special forces' like that because if our special forces can't defeat a 30 feet wall with days to try and figure out how and access to equipment (jackhammers were mentioned along with other things) then our 'special forces' are nothing to brag about. Seriously, all you need to breach a 30 foot wall is an extension ladder to get you up the front side and then a freaking rope ladder to get you down the other.


Also re:drugs, listened to Jason Kander's podcast (which is really good!) and the rancher he talked said they use drones for getting those over. They'll send a couple dozen and maybe two will actually have anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 12:47 pm 
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lukethedrifter wrote:
vinsanity wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
Why are we suggesting it’s a good idea to build the wall? and at what cost?

I watched the Real Time piece Tim mentioned and there's a little more to it than that. The exchange went something like this:

Sullivan: We all agree the wall is not feasible right?
Maher: It's stupid and won't do anything.
Sullivan: Right, but we also agree there'll never actually be a 30' concrete wall. Even if it was approved it'd take much more than a hypothetical Trump two terms and would probably never get started.
Maher: It's just not practical.
Sullivan: So just give it to them. Have the Democrats say they'll let Trump have his wall knowing there's no way they'll ever find funding to actually get it built. Save CHIP and DACA and at least give the appearance to being tough on immigration for middle America.

So he wasn't saying the wall is a good idea; just that they should let them have their symbolic victory knowing that full plans for the wall would never be actualized.


I assume Schumer was thinking same when it was “on the table”.

Who is Sullivan in that conversation? another pundit?

I don't know how this works - but even if they are compromising on a fictitious Wall (at least fictitious in the sense of peanut brained Trump) - isn't it agreeing to allotting $$$ to something along the border security. Then the compromise isn't the Wall, the compromise would be on increasing the slush fund under ICE?


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 1:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 1:53 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
Who is Sullivan in that conversation? another pundit?

I don't know how this works - but even if they are compromising on a fictitious Wall (at least fictitious in the sense of peanut brained Trump) - isn't it agreeing to allotting $$$ to something along the border security. Then the compromise isn't the Wall, the compromise would be on increasing the slush fund under ICE?

It was a continuation of this starter viewtopic.php?f=30&t=61994&start=20#p1802426 an English author.

I don't know exactly how it would work but it's not just cutting a check to ICE.

Even still, if an increase in border patrol funding is what it would take to get DACA and CHIP passed AND allowed the Democrats to "appear" tough on immigration, why not?


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 2:12 pm 
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I'm still not convinced that illegal immigration is a big deal in the grand scheme of things.


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 2:13 pm 
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Can we all agree these shutdowns are really expletiving stupid? It's all posture and pomp. Just like 2013 this was a big waste of time for nothing but fart noises.

I am horrified by Dreamers being forced to hang in the balance, but this shutdown accomplished nothing. Find a better way.


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 Post subject: Re: Shut 'er Down!
PostPosted: January 22 18, 2:23 pm 
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Tim wrote:
I'm still not convinced that illegal immigration is a big deal in the grand scheme of things.


I'm certainly not convinced that it is a problem that should even be on the radar right now given all the other issues that I would put as more important like stagnant wages (unless you are an executive), healthcare, whatever the heck we have our military fighting for in other countries just to start a list.

I think the only reason it's such a big deal with politicians right now is because it is so easily politicized and will get people worked up while distracting them from what's really being done by our politicians with regards to selling the average American out to corporations for their own personal/political gain.


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