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 Post subject: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 19 18, 11:08 pm 
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Sure, it continues to soar but isn't it really just one more way to consolidate wealth at the top? I was pretty young when I realized that bad news for (some) workers meant good news for shareholders.


Let's talk about the ethics of our financial system.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 20 18, 11:02 am 
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There is no question that the quest to meet earnings and make the rich more money hurts the workers. You have companies that will lay off thousands not because they are unprofitable but because they don't hit an earnings projection. Meaning they make the rich some money, just not enough.


I think you guys know where I stand on this whole issue. Too bad it will never change.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 20 18, 12:54 pm 
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I agree that it helps the already wealthy. However with most retirement plans now in the form of 401k’s, it at least helps most of the middle class as well.

I don’t like that a runaway stock market is confused for a bustling economy. There are still major systemic problems with the larger economy.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 20 18, 3:15 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
I agree that it helps the already wealthy. However with most retirement plans now in the form of 401k’s, it at least helps most of the middle class as well.

I don’t like that a runaway stock market is confused for a bustling economy. There are still major systemic problems with the larger economy.



That is the argument and it’s certainly true to an extent. Problem is that there are fewer and fewer ppl who have the ability (read as:extra cash) to put money away. Plus the volatility of the stock market means that if you are unlucky enough to retire at the wrong time, your retirement can be ravaged.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 20 18, 7:19 pm 
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lukethedrifter wrote:
Plus the volatility of the stock market means that if you are unlucky enough to retire at the wrong time, your retirement can be ravaged.

I hope to retire next year at this time so this concerns me bigly, that I can tell you.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 20 18, 10:24 pm 
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https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06 ... -401k.aspx
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Data from the Census Bureau suggests that as little as 14% of all employers offer a 401(k), yet Census researchers recently estimated that 79% of Americans work for an employer that sponsors a 401(k)-style retirement plan. How is that possible? Large companies that employ high numbers of workers are the most likely to sponsor retirement plans.

All that said, not everyone who's offered an employer-sponsored plan actually takes advantage of it. Of those 79% of Americans who get the choice to fund a 401(k), only 41% opt to participate. As such, just 32% of the total workforce is saving in a 401(k).


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 21 18, 10:54 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx
Quote:
Data from the Census Bureau suggests that as little as 14% of all employers offer a 401(k), yet Census researchers recently estimated that 79% of Americans work for an employer that sponsors a 401(k)-style retirement plan. How is that possible? Large companies that employ high numbers of workers are the most likely to sponsor retirement plans.

All that said, not everyone who's offered an employer-sponsored plan actually takes advantage of it. Of those 79% of Americans who get the choice to fund a 401(k), only 41% opt to participate. As such, just 32% of the total workforce is saving in a 401(k).


If those percentages are roughly accurate, then it begs to question to notion that small businesses drive job growth in the country.

This discussion also makes me think about the Great Recession when everyone was losing jobs. It seemed to me at the time that companies were cutting their workforce because the forecasts were telling them that they wouldn't need those workers in the near term rather than what the immediate workloads were - and therefore they overreacted and laid people off unnecessarily. This recent boom at the end of a long steady bull market screams bubble to me, and it would be good to be reassured of job security before it pops and history repeats itself.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 7:15 am 
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Gashouse wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx
Quote:
Data from the Census Bureau suggests that as little as 14% of all employers offer a 401(k), yet Census researchers recently estimated that 79% of Americans work for an employer that sponsors a 401(k)-style retirement plan. How is that possible? Large companies that employ high numbers of workers are the most likely to sponsor retirement plans.

All that said, not everyone who's offered an employer-sponsored plan actually takes advantage of it. Of those 79% of Americans who get the choice to fund a 401(k), only 41% opt to participate. As such, just 32% of the total workforce is saving in a 401(k).


If those percentages are roughly accurate, then it begs to question to notion that small businesses drive job growth in the country.

This discussion also makes me think about the Great Recession when everyone was losing jobs. It seemed to me at the time that companies were cutting their workforce because the forecasts were telling them that they wouldn't need those workers in the near term rather than what the immediate workloads were - and therefore they overreacted and laid people off unnecessarily. This recent boom at the end of a long steady bull market screams bubble to me, and it would be good to be reassured of job security before it pops and history repeats itself.



I suspect it all depends on how you define "small". I think when you hear stats about "small business" driving job growth, that's generally defined as business that have less than 500 employees. But businesses that employ like 350 people are still quite big IMO. That isn't some kind of mom and pop business. I used to work at one about that size, and I had a 401K. This pdf says that 99.7% of businesses employ less than 500 people. That means that the 14% of companies that employs 79% of the workforce must include a ton of those medium size companies with a few hundred employees.

But yeah I am very concerned about another bubble. We've had cheap money for so long. We never put in any significant new laws or anything to stop Wall Street derivative speculation. Now Trump & friends will further reduce regulation. If these things keep going unchecked I think it is only a matter of time before we have another meltdown.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 7:45 am 
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Radbird wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
Plus the volatility of the stock market means that if you are unlucky enough to retire at the wrong time, your retirement can be ravaged.

I hope to retire next year at this time so this concerns me bigly, that I can tell you.


Can't you begin to move your money out of stocks and into something less volatile as you approach retirement?


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 10:09 am 
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Gashouse wrote:
If those percentages are roughly accurate, then it begs to question to notion that small businesses drive job growth in the country.

That notion has always been wrong. Small business creates a lot of jobs because it also destroys a lot of jobs. The gross numbers are cited for their misleading propaganda value, but net job creation by small business is not that impressive.


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