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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 10:11 am 
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So, you are saying I can't call myself a Job Creator due to my scrapbooking business anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 10:40 am 
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However, stock ownership has slipped during that same period. According to Gallup, 52 percent of U.S. adults owned stock in 2016. Since Gallup started measuring this in 1998, that's only the second time ownership has been this low. These figures include ownership of an individual stock, a stock mutual fund or a self-directed 401(k) or IRA.


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Indeed, nearly all of the stock ownership in the U.S. is concentrated among the richest. According to Wolff's data, the top 20 percent of Americans owned 92 percent of the stocks in 2013.

Put another way: Eighty percent of Americans together owned just 8 percent of all stocks.


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A lot of folks are getting left behind.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 11:42 am 
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Michael wrote:
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However, stock ownership has slipped during that same period. According to Gallup, 52 percent of U.S. adults owned stock in 2016. Since Gallup started measuring this in 1998, that's only the second time ownership has been this low. These figures include ownership of an individual stock, a stock mutual fund or a self-directed 401(k) or IRA.


Quote:
Indeed, nearly all of the stock ownership in the U.S. is concentrated among the richest. According to Wolff's data, the top 20 percent of Americans owned 92 percent of the stocks in 2013.

Put another way: Eighty percent of Americans together owned just 8 percent of all stocks.


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A lot of folks are getting left behind.


These figures are not all that surprising. It doesn’t take a whole lot of salary to get into the top 20% of earners in the US, and I figure it would be similar for stock ownership.

As far as leaving folks behind, some of this is relative. What really matters is if these stockholders are hoarding the wealth in this country, through stock. If they are taking their earnings in the market and then spreading it around the economy, then everything works. It breaks down when they keep reinvesting their earnings from the market within the stock market (to take advantage of the growth), but then the economy grinds to a halt because people stopped spending money.

I do think most of the stock market run-up is false progress. A lot of anticipation for what tax reform will bring. A lot of companies doing various “value building” exercises like stock buy-backs, etc. All paper exercises. The tangible value of most corporations are not building. Seems pretty ripe for a bubble, or at least a prolonged stall in the next 1-2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: January 22 18, 1:05 pm 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
Gashouse wrote:
If those percentages are roughly accurate, then it begs to question to notion that small businesses drive job growth in the country.

That notion has always been wrong. Small business creates a lot of jobs because it also destroys a lot of jobs. The gross numbers are cited for their misleading propaganda value, but net job creation by small business is not that impressive.


The thing I always hear from chamber of commerce types is that most jobs come from existing businesses expanding, and not from new businesses. This is a lot more believable to me. Just like the second million is much easier to make than the first million, I bet going from 100 to 200 employees is much easier than going from 0 to 100. Or for that matter I bet going from 10 to 20 employees is easier than going from 0 to 10.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: February 15 18, 9:52 am 
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The Dow is creeping back up towards 25k. Nothing to see here, everything is A OK.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: February 15 18, 11:19 am 
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pioneer98 wrote:
The Dow is creeping back up towards 25k. Nothing to see here, everything is A OK.

Where should it be?


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: February 15 18, 1:30 pm 
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TimeForGuinness wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
The Dow is creeping back up towards 25k. Nothing to see here, everything is A OK.

Where should it be?



I don't know. It took a big drop last week. What has changed since then for it to go back up?


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: February 15 18, 1:56 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
TimeForGuinness wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
The Dow is creeping back up towards 25k. Nothing to see here, everything is A OK.

Where should it be?



I don't know. It took a big drop last week. What has changed since then for it to go back up?


I'm getting closer to honestly believing that many drops are the consequence of those with huge sums of money invested in the stock market looking for any reason to sell high causing the prices to drop so they can buy back in low since they know it will creep right back up and make them even more money. Any time there is a bit of negative news about a company, they immediately dump their huge shares which then causes all of the smaller individual investors to look to dump their stock while it's still worth more than they got in for and the big guys at the top that started the panic selling turn around and buy up the cheaper shares knowing that a week later (at most) the story will have blown over and prices will go back up because the stock will be seen as a bargain.

I was going to use the Crock Pot situation as an example but I would have looked stupid. Thankfully I looked it up first and saw that their drop was more to do with a disappointing forecast or earnings report than the fictional TV show death caused by their product. The timings of both just happened to coincide and I heard about the TV show, stock price drop but not the financial report. So instead I'll use the airlines. Every time a complaint/video goes viral the price of the airline's stock drops immediately only to be back at the previous levels within a week. I'm almost positive that those with large positions in the airline stocks are the ones that immediately start the sell off and then buy right back in as soon as they think it's bottomed out about as much as it is going to.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: February 15 18, 2:12 pm 
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tlombard wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
TimeForGuinness wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
The Dow is creeping back up towards 25k. Nothing to see here, everything is A OK.

Where should it be?



I don't know. It took a big drop last week. What has changed since then for it to go back up?


I'm getting closer to honestly believing that many drops are the consequence of those with huge sums of money invested in the stock market looking for any reason to sell high causing the prices to drop so they can buy back in low since they know it will creep right back up and make them even more money. Any time there is a bit of negative news about a company, they immediately dump their huge shares which then causes all of the smaller individual investors to look to dump their stock while it's still worth more than they got in for and the big guys at the top that started the panic selling turn around and buy up the cheaper shares knowing that a week later (at most) the story will have blown over and prices will go back up because the stock will be seen as a bargain.

I was going to use the Crock Pot situation as an example but I would have looked stupid. Thankfully I looked it up first and saw that their drop was more to do with a disappointing forecast or earnings report than the fictional TV show death caused by their product. The timings of both just happened to coincide and I heard about the TV show, stock price drop but not the financial report. So instead I'll use the airlines. Every time a complaint/video goes viral the price of the airline's stock drops immediately only to be back at the previous levels within a week. I'm almost positive that those with large positions in the airline stocks are the ones that immediately start the sell off and then buy right back in as soon as they think it's bottomed out about as much as it is going to.



And that's kind of what I'm getting at with my snarky post. It almost feels rigged or like it's being gamed to some extent.


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market
PostPosted: February 15 18, 2:37 pm 
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This may be a dumb question but hopefully somebody here can make me 'get it' when it comes to the stock market. Full disclosure, I've never taken any finance classes and short of balancing a checkbook the whole accounting thing makes no sense to me.

I understand a company selling stocks to raise money for expansion, etc. and then they want to keep the stock holders happy but other than the board of directors cleaning out the upper management (I really get the CEO's obsession with stock prices)... why does a company's stock price have such an important influence?

I guess management doesn't want the company sold and/or losing their huge compensation packages but what other impact does stock price really have? The stock price could be at zero and the company would still be profitable assuming they have a product that is in demand and are able to sell it at a price that is more than their total costs. I am sure that a stock tanking would make having open lines of credit more difficult but even then, companies who's stock hasn't tanked turn around an file for bankruptcy protection when they can't (or don't want to... Trump) pay their bills so that seems stupid to me.

The only thing I can really come back to with the stock market is that so much emphasis is put on a stock price because the people who make or lose money on how your company performs have the ability to hire, fire and pay the senior executives. It's all rich people exploiting a market and other people to make another buck. I'm not saying that only rich people have stocks but if you're in a position to put pressure on a CEO as a shareholder then you have a significant investment in the company's stocks and are extremely rich 99% of the time.

It's almost like selling stock is taking on a loan but instead of paying back the loan under defined terms, you give all the power to the people loaning you the money and taking on the risk by hoping they can eventually sell their shares for more than they paid (and of course you pay some of the loan back in dividends).


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