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PostPosted: May 6 19, 4:13 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
So you spend $22K to clear $2.2 million in debt....how does this work? Does the nonprofit chip in something? If the debt is retired by paying pennies on the dollar, why can't hospitals (or whoever is owed the money) just charge less up front? Getting off topic I guess. It's cool but to me just another sign of how utterly broken our health care system is.


John Oliver did a segment on this a couple years back. He bought $15 million in debt for $60K. The reduced rate is only available to a big company that specializes in buying bad debt and then collecting as much as possible. Oliver formed a 501(c)(3) and bought the debt, then forgave it all.

Why can't hospitals charge less up front is a really really really good question. If they did that then people wouldn't be in debt. The average family in the above, if there are 1600 families and 2.2 million in debt, would have owed only $1375, an amount that most of us on this board can probably write a check for and move on. It's tragic that those families can't afford an amount that is really not a hell of a lot of money, even on a payment plan.


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PostPosted: May 7 19, 7:08 am 
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You don’t have to be a large company to do that...

I’ve never paid what was on a bill sent from a doctor or hospital. Particularly for large things we’ve had like babies and ER visits and such.

Every time you get a bill you just call the number and tell them you’re not paying that amount, and what amount will they accept if I pay with a credit card today. They always call back will a substantially lower number. Every damn time. Now, you obv have to have a large credit limit on cards for the bigger stuff, so that’s a hinderance if you do not. But normal md visits where they send you bills for stuff that insurance won’t cover, like extra for steroid shots/medicine given at the office/etc. don’t pay their price for that crap. They always take a lower amount.

I’m sure something similar a hospital would take when you’re going to give them millions to pay off debt; esp if you know those debts weren’t going to be paid otherwise by the patients that owed it.


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PostPosted: May 12 19, 9:03 am 
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Rev Greg Weeks was the youth minister (or associate maybe) at my church when i was still going in my mid teens.

https://revgregweeks.com/suggestions-fo ... methodism/

If a new Methodist denomination results, it will have to repair the considerable damage done thanks to the debacle of the 2019 GC. Non-believers are totally turned off by religious in-fighting. Who can blame them? When they see us spending millions of dollars in a General Conference to debate what’s a non-issue for them, it only reinforces religious stereotypes. In the eyes of the world, we’re now no different from the Franklin Grahams who denounce anyone who would label themselves gay and Christian, such as Pete Buttigieg.

Direction from Modern Secularism

If we’re going to explore a new Methodist expression, maybe it’s healthy to start by listening to what modern secularism is telling us. After all, religion isn’t required in order to be moral or ethical. Indeed, when you see people who profess no faith caring for people just as passionately as the religious are supposed to, we can take note of some things

Israeli historian Yuval Harari, in his book 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, wrote about the ideals of modern secularism. He saw four key values of ethical secularists.

Truth. Reason, commonsense, experience, the sciences. These resist the bending of truth to support hidden agendas. For us religious folks, honest inquiry should inform our faith and ethics. A faithful mind is an inquiring mind. Climate change is real. What are we going to do about it? You cannot choose your sexual orientation. How does that affect how we read the Bible and understand the Gospel?

Compassion. Addressing suffering is the prime mover for moral secularists. It’s a clear imperative. It was for Jesus as well, who transgressed sacred Jewish boundaries in order to meet people in their pain. People need to see that Methodists are passionate about alleviating harm and not causing more of it. Compassion starts by affirming that judging is incompatible with a Christian lifestyle.

Equality. Perhaps the most insidious suffering people inflict is denying someone their dignity and rights. It is here that secularists have seen the church abdicate leadership. Historically, we’ve often been silent or passive in addressing discrimination based on race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. Sometimes we’ve let prejudice masquerade in pious attire. A new Methodism leads society forward and doesn’t hold it back. It eliminates “us” and “them” thinking.

Responsibility. Secularists take responsibility for making things better and don’t rely on a higher power. For religious people, that translates into praying with fervor but acting with equal fervor. Don’t ask God to do something for which you’re not willing to work and sacrifice. When we put our time where our mouth is, people will listen. Truth of creed follows dedication in service.


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PostPosted: May 12 19, 11:52 am 
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Great post, Luke.


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PostPosted: May 12 19, 2:11 pm 
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33anda3rd wrote:
Great post, Luke.

++


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PostPosted: May 12 19, 3:01 pm 
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cardsfantx wrote:
You don’t have to be a large company to do that...

I’ve never paid what was on a bill sent from a doctor or hospital. Particularly for large things we’ve had like babies and ER visits and such.

Every time you get a bill you just call the number and tell them you’re not paying that amount, and what amount will they accept if I pay with a credit card today. They always call back will a substantially lower number. Every damn time. Now, you obv have to have a large credit limit on cards for the bigger stuff, so that’s a hinderance if you do not. But normal md visits where they send you bills for stuff that insurance won’t cover, like extra for steroid shots/medicine given at the office/etc. don’t pay their price for that crap. They always take a lower amount.

I’m sure something similar a hospital would take when you’re going to give them millions to pay off debt; esp if you know those debts weren’t going to be paid otherwise by the patients that owed it.


All true, though it’s ridiculous for a system to work that way and to have a stack of bills to manage at a time like that.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 1:55 pm 
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Just wanted to pass this along because it’s a direct result of our abortion discussion (May the thread RIP).

Last night our church small group met as we do every Wednesday night. 6 couples ages 28-37. We studied Matthew 5: 43-48. Jesus telling the crowd to love your enemies and he uses tax collectors and pagans as examples.

So at the end of our discussion we kicked around the idea of how we could do that. How can we love our enemies? Clearly nobody wanted fess up to actually hating anyone or actually having enemies (except Sex Offenders- they polled poorly with the group), so we thought who about who society would deem as “enemies” of Christians (or more likely, who “evangelicals” would consider enemies).

I suggested Planned Parenthood. Obviously abortion is a minuscule part of what they do, but I think to many Christians (especially in South Carolina) the organization doesn’t have near the favorability rating that Habitat for Humanity has. After a spirited discussion, I think we are going to apply to be volunteers there. Now they may not want our help. That remains to be seen. But we felt it was a practical way to live out our faith.

I’m not posting this to prove how edgy or progressive our small group is (I suspect the majority is pro-life), or to get accolades from GRB, but rather to share an example where the discussions in this forum may actually lead to action taking place.

GRB is an awesome community and I know I’m better by being a very small part of it.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 2:06 pm 
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As aside, I think Christians I associate with think tolerating our “enemies” is the same as loving them. Jesus clearly did not command for us to tolerate our enemies. The Good Samaritan didn’t tolerate the man on the side of the road. He loved the man as he loved himself.

When we first posed the question, we wanted to do the old “let’s volunteer at the homeless shelter one night.” Nobody “hates” the homeless. The homeless aren’t our “enemies.” Not saying we should t be doing more for those folks, but that’s not really radical, like Jesus is. Planned Parenthood seemed like an obvious choice to me, knowing how some of us feel about the organization.

I’d be interested in other GRB Christians in hearing their input and specific ways we can “love our enemies.”


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 2:10 pm 
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That is cool Tim.

Kind of interesting seque- My teen daughter has done the Christian trip several times now. I won't trivialize her view about about Christianity and the Bible now, because it is complicated.

Needless to say, she is questioning and at odds with some of it (surprise to me kind of) Anyways, I wasn't sure if she'd do the trip this year because some things she simply doesn't believe in, and also because they group up with other churches that she potentially has issues with, as she is woke to women's issues and LQBTQ.

She is going, loving her enemy so to speak, but the enemy is church related (enemy too strong a term perhaps) a week long - they usually do some home cleanup repair stuff. A big sacrifice for a teen, with how crammed her summer is.


Last edited by Freed Roger on May 23 19, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 23 19, 2:16 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
That is cool Tim.

Kind of interesting seque- My teen daughter has done the Christian trip several times now. I won't trivialize her view about about Christianity and the Bible now, because it is complicated. Needless to say, she is questioning and at odds with some of it (a surprise to me kind of) anyways, I wasn't sure if she'd do the trip this year because some things she simply doesn't believe in, and also because they group up with other churches that she potentially has issues with.

She is going, a week long - they usually do some home cleanup repair stuff. A big sacrifice for a teen, with how crammed her summer is.

It will be life changing, no doubt. Good for her. I look forward to hearing how it went.

I can pinpoint exactly when my faith changed from a legalism standpoint to a relationship with Christ and that was my first medical mission trip to Togo, Africa. There is where I began having a heart for missions. 3 trips later and i can’t get it out of my system. Our best friends just purchased a well for a village and the number of water borne illnesses have dropped drastically in a few short months. My wife and I look forward to doing the same shortly.


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