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PostPosted: November 15 16, 10:55 am 
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Many of us feel it or see it coming but when will we be there for sure?

I guess first you have to agree on a definition. Wikipedia lists no less than 19 definitions.

I'll start by saying I'll call it when the three branches of the Federal government have agreed to cede most of their powers to President Trump either directly or through the actions of proxies placed in those institutions.

Will it happen? Don't know. Can it happen? Very plausible given the sociopathic tendencies of Donald J Trump.

What say you?


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:19 am 
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I think the first journalist to get arrested will be the sign. That kinda did happen in North Dakota last month, but let's say the first reporter arrested at the behest of the Trump administration. That will be the canary in the coal mine moment for me, and I am expecting it to happen pretty quickly, since Trump's already said it's what he hopes to do.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:22 am 
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It's hard to go from a socialist state to a fascist state very quickly.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:23 am 
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when the calendar reads January 20th 2017


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:25 am 
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I’d argue that Trump is already a fascist leader. And yes, this makes many (no, not all, but many) of Trump’s supporters fascists. Whether this makes the country "fascist" or not, I don't know. But I posted this in another thread already, but if you read this PDF of an old essay, it will become clear. These are the traits of a fascist leader:
- Extreme narcissism
- how he appears to be a "superman" and a "regular guy" at the same time
- very few specific policies - actually, we just learned they had ZERO actual policies
- long, repetitive speeches
- pits "in-group" versus "out-groups"
- race is a big identifier of the "in" and "out" groups
- attacks intellectuals and snobs

Does this make our country "fascist"? I don't know. What you are really asking is whether we are going to have a dictator, or at least whether Trump will bend things more in that direction. I don't know where the line is drawn to say when it has crossed over into fascism. I'd say if Republicans throw phony charges at political opponents and journalists so they can be sued or arrested, then we are getting really, really warm.

My prediction: Trump will just do whatever he feels like, and let the lawyers sort it out, which is what he’s done his entire life. If he feels like doing something, he'll just do it. He already has no clue about what the actual responsibilities are for the president, and what he can and can't delegate to others. The press will gasp and say "Should he be doing this?" and rack up a bunch of clicks. His supporters will call anyone dissenting whiny. Nobody will stop him until immense damage has been done.

I looked back at all the various fascist leaders in the past. None of them were simply voted out of office. They all either died (naturally or otherwise), were arrested for crimes, or were ousted via coup d'etat. Unless someone can find some other example that I missed. I bet one of those endings is likely.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:32 am 
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I'm afraid we're at a point where most of those traits will be of anyone that is on the ballot for election for president among the 2 major parties for some time. And probably has been for a while.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:33 am 
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BW23 wrote:
It's hard to go from a socialist state to a fascist state very quickly.


That would be hard. Unfortunately, we are only going from a pro-business, hawkish, neoliberal state to a fascist state. That is a much shorter leap.

After Trump wrecks the country, I predict people will say Trump was a leftist all along. Even though it was all the right-wingers that elected him, and left wingers have thought he was Satan since day #1.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:36 am 
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BW23 wrote:
I'm afraid we're at a point where most of those traits will be of anyone that is on the ballot for election for president among the 2 major parties for some time. And probably has been for a while.


Mitt Romney, as much as I disliked him, had hundreds and hundreds of pages of policies written by advisors that he planned to implement. Even Bush did, too. So did Hillary and Obama. Trump has zero. None. I will be floored if the next Democratic nominee has zero.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:37 am 
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BW23 wrote:
I'm afraid we're at a point where most of those traits will be of anyone that is on the ballot for election for president among the 2 major parties for some time. And probably has been for a while.


Trump hits all of those traits, but I can't think of another candidate in my voting memory (~20 years) that gets more than 2 or 3 at most.


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PostPosted: November 15 16, 11:39 am 
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pioneer98 wrote:
BW23 wrote:
It's hard to go from a socialist state to a fascist state very quickly.


That would be hard. Unfortunately, we are only going from a pro-business, hawkish, neoliberal state to a fascist state. That is a much shorter leap.

After Trump wrecks the country, I predict people will say Trump was a leftist all along. Even though it was all the right-wingers that elected him, and left wingers have thought he was Satan since day #1.


My point was that 8 years ago people screamed that the US would be a socialist state. While some might disagree with your assessment of where it is, it didn't quite end up where those doubters thought it would. The same will be true here.


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