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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 9:49 am 
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33anda3rd wrote:
A friend of mine owns a bakery, he put this on social media this morning, thought I'd share.

Quote:
Government: you better renew your business license or we charge you $200 per day!
Me: I already renewed my license and you just haven’t sent it
Government: we didn’t release it because you have a lapsed permit you didn’t pay for
Me: that permit is from years ago and we don’t even have that business anymore
Government: you should have let us know
Me: here’s the document where I let you know
Government: oh ok we’ll fix it

Two Weeks Later:
Me: hi I’m checking in because I still don’t have my updated license
Government: you better renew your license or we will fine you $200 per day
Me: did you forget to fix the permit issue?
Government: you never talked to us
Me: here’s the email from you where you said you would fix this
Government: oh ok we’ll fix it. Call us again tomorrow to see if we fixed it

Later that day: inspector shows up-
Inspector: your license isn’t updated. I have to fine you for not updating the license
Me: I’ve been working on it here’s my conversation with the government
Inspector: oh good thing you documented it- I would have had to fine you. Looks like someone in the office was being lazy
Me: ok what can I do?
Inspector: well you have two days to get your license updated otherwise I’ll be back and will have to fine you
Me: ok- calls government over and walks each department through updating it then tracks it to make sure I can go pick it up in person. They accidentally mail it and say I have to wait for it to come in the mail. It comes before an inspector shows up and we are finally updated

Next Day:
Politicians: the healthcare industry is evil. Education industry is evil. Banking is evil. The government will do it better and you should give them 40% of your income so they can do it better.
Me: I agree they’re evil but you don’t have a history of great management.
Politician: you must not believe people deserve to be healthy, educated or wealthy! You’re greedy!
Me: um....




Socialism is not when the government does stuff. Medicare for All? Technically it is not “socialism”. Socialism is when workers own and operate a business, enterprise, etc democratically.

I work in a massive corporation and it’s hilarious to me how my coworkers will make extremely similar complaints to the one above about government…and then participate in the same exact kind of inefficient bureaucracy every day of their lives to make a living. For some reason, private sector bureaucracy is not frowned upon the same way as public sector bureaucracy. But both can be just as bad...some is run better than others. The problem is not with bureaucracy per se, it's with how well it is run.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 9:56 am 
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that irks me too....that people think private biz is so well run and stream lined compared to gov't.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 10:19 am 
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Jocephus wrote:
that irks me too....that people think private biz is so well run and stream lined compared to gov't.

Yep. AT&T for one. All of healthcare. Car maintenance. Etc etc

MO DMV license offices that people nitch about are privately run.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 10:21 am 
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It is a large topic. But I think everything is just about growth in our economy. More more more. That is the wrong mantra in a country on a planet with limited resources. Should be about sustainability. Balance. Blah blah blah

Realize we are just living creatures, animals. Humans are special, but not really. A human from the USA is not special at all, amongst humans. We are future worm food like everyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 10:41 am 
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The stuff that's a necessity runs rampant. Healthcare, pharma, communication lines.

But other business, when you're not too big or too necessary to fail, like a bakery, runs better by private owner than the government ever could. The government if they can't get a budget together just shuts down and goes on vacation, figures it out later. A small business owner does not have that luxury. The government if they can't find a solution to something they blame one another, give press conferences about how the other side is awful, fight and fight and fight, and don't fix it. Private government does not have that luxury. Since government can't agree on how to run government, leaving pretty much all but the very expensive military to political whims, they really can't run business better than an entrepreneur.

To the point of gashouse's thread in social: money or time? The best businesses are run by people who don't work for money or time but because it is the owner's passion. Someone passionate about owning and operating a bakery or pharmacy or doggy daycare or bike repair shop or juicebar or pilates studio--someone who is following as the thing they love the most--will always run it better than a bureaucrat or government agency. They will always run it better than a collective of workers because not all those workers will share the same passion.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 11:31 am 
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Freed Roger wrote:
It is a large topic. But I think everything is just about growth in our economy. More more more.

Absolutely. Our country has largely been able to increase aggregate supply to keep up with aggregate demand for it's entire existence. This has lead to unprecedented economic growth and for the most part an ability to avoid extended recessions/depressions and stagflation. China has recently had some amazing real GDP growth rates similar to what we did from the industrial revolution to the 70's, but nowhere near as long or as consistently. Our entire identity as a nation is based on growth.

That's why we're so culturally tied to capitalism, moreso than any other nation on earth. It's just always lead to good things on the whole. But it's certainly not sustainable and we're getting to the point where every capitalist advancement that spurs GDP growth also damages future GDP potential. Climate change is the obvious example, but look at technology as well. The more we invest in technology, the more efficient production becomes and the more our economy grows...until automation wipes out crucial job sectors and wages plummet.

This is why, over the course of the last ten years, I've come to believe that democratic socialism is a necessary evolutionary adaptation to prevent capitalism from killing itself and most of us along with it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 11:54 am 
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thrill wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
It is a large topic. But I think everything is just about growth in our economy. More more more.

Absolutely. Our country has largely been able to increase aggregate supply to keep up with aggregate demand for it's entire existence. This has lead to unprecedented economic growth and for the most part an ability to avoid extended recessions/depressions and stagflation. China has recently had some amazing real GDP growth rates similar to what we did from the industrial revolution to the 70's, but nowhere near as long or as consistently. Our entire identity as a nation is based on growth.

That's why we're so culturally tied to capitalism, moreso than any other nation on earth. It's just always lead to good things on the whole. But it's certainly not sustainable and we're getting to the point where every capitalist advancement that spurs GDP growth also damages future GDP potential. Climate change is the obvious example, but look at technology as well. The more we invest in technology, the more efficient production becomes and the more our economy grows...until automation wipes out crucial job sectors and wages plummet.

This is why, over the course of the last ten years, I've come to believe that democratic socialism is a necessary evolutionary adaptation to prevent capitalism from killing itself and most of us along with it.

Yep. We need to recognize the life cycle of Nations. We (as in our groupthink led by the right, and of course the historical narrative) dismiss the more socialistic nation examples of Europe as irrelevant.

However they are older nations, and many have already been through their respective stages in life cycle of nations - discovery, and genocide of natives, conquest, exploitation of resources, and growth. Now they have to make do with what they have (not to say there arent still areas of growth-green stuff). They've learned this, mostly out of necessity.

i.e. Netherlands below sea level-how does capitalism contend with that issue in an equitable way on it's own?

US of A, as you say think its endless frontier. A homestead act for Greenland after we buy it and run off the natives.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 2:08 pm 
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33, please dont pass on those ridiculous emails and make me call you Dave Rubin again. Ok, boomer?


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 3:16 pm 
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Should also be said that a lot of government inefficiency comes about because Republicans and corrupt Democrats like it that way. Which is also why people need to participate to whatever extent they’re able.


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 Post subject: Re: The Socialism Thread
PostPosted: November 7 19, 3:20 pm 
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ghostrunner wrote:
Should also be said that a lot of government inefficiency comes about because Republicans and corrupt Democrats like it that way. Which is also why people need to participate to whatever extent they’re able.

Absolutely. We need more effective and transparent governance. Not punt to the corporate overlords.


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