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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 1:32 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
I don’t think punishment is the answer here. Education is. They’re dumb high school kids who think they are doing something edgy, and not comprehending the heinousness of the Nazi regime.


Though there is something wrong here, education-wise. No doubt I would have known not to do that at 16, in my tiny, southern, small town, 95% WASP high school.

Having said that, I had several classmates whose parents belonged to a country club that black people weren’t allowed to join.


Last edited by ghostrunner on November 13 18, 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 1:33 pm 
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Most from the Greatest Generation are gone - the ones with first-hand knowledge who dealt with the consequences of Nazism/fascism. Many didn't share their experiences with their children, not wanting to burden them with the depths the world spiraled into during the '30s and '40s. My dad never said one word about his WWII service when I was growing up. But history classes in school focused on it, perhaps because our teachers were part of that generation and lived through the horror.

In his 80s, with dementia/Alzheimer's setting in, Dad finally opened up. With each of his grandchildren, he went through albums his mother kept with WWII memorabilia (photos, newspaper clippings, letters) and it all came pouring out - tears, anger, fear - all of it. My mom added to it by sharing her war stories - working in factories to support the war effort, losing her first husband in combat when she was 3 months pregnant. They are long gone now but my kid and her cousins will never forget that experience (nor will I).

It's different today. Less classroom time is spent on the origins of WWII. It's now relegated to a few pages in between WWI and Korea. There are no grandparents to call on. The lessons of history are waning. The horrible climate set by those in charge today have allowed white supremacy to climb out of the sewer into full view. And we don't have a leader to repudiate and force them back into the netherworld.

These kids probably don't have that history. To them this is something out in the open and even encouraged at times - right now a fun thing to do. But if no one is there to provide them with the past effects and consequences of fascism, the chances for them to drift into the depths of neo-fascism have increased.


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 1:39 pm 
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Apparently the citizens of the town got together for a photo shoot at the same spot at the original photo, to "overshadow" the hate, and spread a message of "love and peace".


Image


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 1:43 pm 
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Why do people do these things? Poor kids.


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 2:04 pm 
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backing away from the hyper focus on HS kids in Baraboo

anybody see "Blackkklansman"?
Pretty good flick regardless whether you into film with a message .

FWIW that message hit home, at least with my part of the choir.

The organized hate groups have never gone away since that era of the film (70s). But they retreated into the dark corners and Moms' basements. A guy like David Duke, mostly gone from attention/relevance since then. KKK etc -and Neo Nazis etc -looked at as freak show losers for quite some time, instead of potential WH staff.

Obviously, social media / internet perversion expanded their reach. However, their coming out of Moms' basement had largely happened with their hero Trump. In the case of the pipe bomb mailer - he actually did come out of Mom's basement.

The movie does a pretty good job tieing this old story to today. With the Nixon posters. MAGA is same (or worse) as the bygone America Love it or Leave it message. Reading the Ron Stallworth backstory vs the film - I saw the copy of his KKK membership. Law and Order in line 1.
Movie end spoil
Spoiler: show
I don't think I had actually seen the footage of Trump's Very Fine People comment. Granted, was charged up by the dramatized movie, but the footage, manner he said it, made it seem much worse than just "very fine people".
Also hadn't seen that detailed of footage of the car barreling thru a bunch of people. Kind of a miracle more people didnt die


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 2:18 pm 
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ghostrunner wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
I don’t think punishment is the answer here. Education is. They’re dumb high school kids who think they are doing something edgy, and not comprehending the heinousness of the Nazi regime.


Though there is something wrong here, education-wise. No doubt I would have known not to do that at 16, in my tiny, southern, small town, 95% WASP high school.

Having said that, I had several classmates whose parents belonged to a country club that black people weren’t allowed to join.


When I was 16/17, I would have known not to do it as well. But the thing about teenage males is that they like to do things that they aren't supposed to do--especially when they get in large groups. Everyone shares a laugh that we're doing something taboo!

What I didn't truly understand at that time was respect and empathy. I *knew* Nazis were bad, and that the holocaust was terrible. But I didn't really *understand* how bad and how terrible until I toured Dachau, and watched Schindler's List, etc.

That's where I'm coming from on the education angle. These kids *know* they aren't supposed to do this. They need to *understand* why they should never think of it, even as a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 2:19 pm 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
I don’t think punishment is the answer here. Education is. They’re dumb high school kids who think they are doing something edgy, and not comprehending the heinousness of the Nazi regime.


Though there is something wrong here, education-wise. No doubt I would have known not to do that at 16, in my tiny, southern, small town, 95% WASP high school.

Having said that, I had several classmates whose parents belonged to a country club that black people weren’t allowed to join.


When I was 16/17, I would have known not to do it as well. But the thing about teenage males is that they like to do things that they aren't supposed to do--especially when they get in large groups. Everyone shares a laugh that we're doing something taboo!

What I didn't truly understand at that time was respect and empathy. I *knew* Nazis were bad, and that the holocaust was terrible. But I didn't really *understand* how bad and how terrible until I toured Dachau, and watched Schindler's List, etc.

That's where I'm coming from on the education angle. These kids *know* they aren't supposed to do this. They need to *understand* why they should never think of it, even as a joke.


Yup


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 3:12 pm 
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My friends and I would've found that appalling but otoh we used to call each other homophobic slurs in every other sentence.


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 3:15 pm 
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haltz wrote:
My friends and I would've found that appalling but otoh we used to call each other homophobic slurs in every other sentence.


Same.

I think that picture speaks to the way the administration is normalizing this type hate speech.


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 Post subject: Re: "very fine people"
PostPosted: November 13 18, 3:16 pm 
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