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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 10:06 am 
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Buttigieg is really moving up my rankings. Not much to dislike, though I'd like more defined positions on some of the big items like Medicare for All or Green New Deal.

He reminds me much more of what I liked about candidate Obama than Beto, and without Beto's self-aggrandizing crap. Doesn't seem too concerned about scoring rhetorical points and answers questions thoughtfully, which I think is a good antidote to Trump. Also seems more open than most to process reform across the board - popular vote, DC/PR statehood, SCOTUS changes, and killing the filibuster.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 12:52 pm 
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I just can’t see an openly gay person being nominated for president in this country, let alone be president.

But I also never thought I’d see a black president, so ya never know


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 2:19 pm 
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ghostrunner wrote:
Buttigieg is really moving up my rankings. Not much to dislike, though I'd like more defined positions on some of the big items like Medicare for All or Green New Deal.

He reminds me much more of what I liked about candidate Obama than Beto, and without Beto's self-aggrandizing crap. Doesn't seem too concerned about scoring rhetorical points and answers questions thoughtfully, which I think is a good antidote to Trump. Also seems more open than most to process reform across the board - popular vote, DC/PR statehood, SCOTUS changes, and killing the filibuster.



It's not right coming from me but Buttigieg supports Medicare for all with an option to buy private insurance if that is what you prefer & (unlike the ACA) it would serve as a true bridge to single payer.

As far the GND, sees it more as a goal than a policy. I assume he would sign it if it came to his desk but hasn't broken it down policy by policy or line by line sees the true value of becoming carbon negative or carbon neutral and the ability to improve infrastructure and combat climate change is a union of ideas rather than separate. I'd rather see him come up with his own proposal than piggy back a policy he had no say in.

Also Buttigieg is still in the exploratory phase, I assume and hope within the next few weeks that to coincide with the announcement of running that you will see an updated and improved website that highlights his stances.

Plus, his campaign is currently more about ideals and morals than policy. He's right that Democrats lose on policy and Republicans win on ideals. Look at the narrative of Socialism and the Boogeyman surrounding it. Romneycare in MA can be adopted by Obama and called socialized medicine.

The ideals of sensible gun control, higher wages, better and more accessible health care is supported by most yet held hostage by the far right.

Buttigieg is by far the most intellectual running but doesn't have the motivational tone that Obama has but is better at explaining complex issues in a simple yet not condescending manner.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 3:04 pm 
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Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
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Schlich wrote:
This crowd tends to run a little older and I think these kinds of people who were politically involved before 2016 are still stuck in old patterns of political analysis and dont seem to understand that this [expletive] is not a game. This is not a horse race to place bets on. This tired crap that passes as political analysis but says nothing about the material lives of real world people-- its time to end it. As has been mentioned, the stakes are too high.

SAVE THE WHALES!

jeez. the age thing works both ways. All those McGovern volunteers, if they are still alive. where are they now? Speaking of age my 90 y/o neighbor was perhaps the progressive activist person I know. Jill Stein voter. Now she has gone full-on Qanon anti-DNC HRC mode. I made a plea for her to support McCaskill (a terrible candidate no doubt) over the Green Candidate. but she responds by sending me links to some weird q forum. She's had it with establishment dems, obviously. I do not worry we lose good people like you down this rabbit hole, FWIW. but the tale seems relevant somehow.

Anyways, all we are doing is talking here, sharing the angst of the surreal govt situation and wondering how it all plays out in WI, NC OH FL etc.

Idealism is great, it does affect the platform. And yep the idealism of a primary candidate does effect the national viability. I voted Bernie in primary in this way.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 3:40 pm 
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the age comment wasnt meant to be a slight at all, and my point was perhaps poorly worded (i was definitely a few beers in... dont drink and post, ppl) ... just trying to say that some of the stuff that passes as 'punditry' for this race is completely ignorant of the dynamics of 2016 and tend to think that they were an aberration and not a trend. A lot of younger people like me who were mostly politically inactive before then (and many who still are) think that kind of outlook is the real "naive" one.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 3:58 pm 
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33anda3rd wrote:
Again. LOL. There are kids in concentration camps on the border and the courts are slowly getting packed with right-wingers who associate with hate groups and tariffs are [expletive] up our trade and there's an openly racist president putting POC's lives at risk by emboldening violent racists both here and abroad and on and on and on and those are the real things, the real stakes. Some middle class white kid who voted for Stein because she would forgive his student loans (she wouldn't, it's an asinine impossible thing to promise) and helped put us in that position instead of a position where Clinton is President and the alt-right remains on the fringe can kindly STFU and not lecture anyone again about vote integrity.

Those concentration camps predate Trump's inauguration, and your precious centrists put them there. Nobody would be discussing those camps if Clinton had been elected. You could say the same thing about our policy of Permanent War in the middle east. Giving power to people who will compromise human rights for political expediency is not a sustainable model of governance.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 5:42 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 6:15 pm 
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Schlich wrote:
the age comment wasnt meant to be a slight at all, and my point was perhaps poorly worded (i was definitely a few beers in... dont drink and post, ppl) ... just trying to say that some of the stuff that passes as 'punditry' for this race is completely ignorant of the dynamics of 2016 and tend to think that they were an aberration and not a trend. A lot of younger people like me who were mostly politically inactive before then (and many who still are) think that kind of outlook is the real "naive" one.

And you don't have the years and experience to play the naive card.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 17 19, 9:05 pm 
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Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
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Schlich wrote:

Everyone is antsy. and rightly so.
And re: exposing dem candidate as a fraud, well that makes sense. Then comes the general election and its butter emails time for whoever wins dem primary, whether fraudulent or not.

Look how much time AOC (at least she gets help from a punditry/fanbase) spends fending of GOP propaganda.

Not saying we need a bubble around candidates, but just need to be aware of the end game and what is at stake here. Rarely has an enemy and fascist [expletive] machine been so clearly defined as this GOP. A sensible vetting process is going to be tough with 20 candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: March 18 19, 7:16 am 
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What gets me is people on either end thinking the 2016 Democratic primary was nasty. At least between the candidates themselves. The superdelegates became a thing fairly late, but you could see it coming at a certain point. It seemed to get worse with the recriminations among followers afterward, but during I remember thinking it was pretty uneventful outside some light sniping during the debates. Bernie made dozens of appearances for Clinton and I think only 12% of his voters went to Trump compared to 24% of Hillary's 2008 voters who went to McCain.

I always see a lot of accusation on Twitter that Bernie dropped out too late and that somehow hurt Hillary in the general, but I don't get that at all. If anything I think it kept Democrats in the news, which was kind of a struggle with the circus on the other side.


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