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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 12 19, 11:21 pm 
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Man, Cory Booker sucks.



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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 8:13 am 
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Is he wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 8:57 am 
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On watching the clip of the interview that includes context he's more right than wrong. I love Warren but I agree with Booker here: she should be talking about anti-trust legislation and not pointing her argument directly at individual companies. Facebook is not the problem. A system built on inequality, that used to not allow the Facebooks of the world to happen and that has shifted dramatically in a century, is the problem. How will she legislate to get us back to a world in which the Standard Oils and AT&Ts are broken up, rather than tolerated? That's the meat, not "Break up Facebook."

The op-ed by Hughes in the NYT has me sold: Facebook should be broken up, it's dangerously big. Zuckerberg is basically post office, water cooler, email, newspaper, television news, radio news all rolled into one and with 60% of the voting stock in that company he has an unacceptable amount of control over what we read and see and how speech is monitored and regulated. It's utterly unacceptable. From a NYT op-ed piece, Hughes is right. But for Warren and others, "Break up Facebook" on the campaign trail is about as substantive and hyperbolic as "Build The Wall." It's on the right side of an issue unlike the wall mantra, but it's still not very substantive, which as a progressive who demands thoughtfulness and policy in words I want to get.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 9:13 am 
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33anda3rd wrote:
On watching the clip of the interview that includes context he's more right than wrong. I love Warren but I agree with Booker here: she should be talking about anti-trust legislation and not pointing her argument directly at individual companies. Facebook is not the problem. A system built on inequality, that used to not allow the Facebooks of the world to happen and that has shifted dramatically in a century, is the problem. How will she legislate to get us back to a world in which the Standard Oils and AT&Ts are broken up, rather than tolerated? That's the meat, not "Break up Facebook."

The op-ed by Hughes in the NYT has me sold: Facebook should be broken up, it's dangerously big. Zuckerberg is basically post office, water cooler, email, newspaper, television news, radio news all rolled into one and with 60% of the voting stock in that company he has an unacceptable amount of control over what we read and see and how speech is monitored and regulated. It's utterly unacceptable. From a NYT op-ed piece, Hughes is right. But for Warren and others, "Break up Facebook" on the campaign trail is about as substantive and hyperbolic as "Build The Wall." It's on the right side of an issue unlike the wall mantra, but it's still not very substantive, which as a progressive who demands thoughtfulness and policy in words I want to get.


Teddy Roosevelt did just fine calling for such things, and made it happen. How else does one shape the national conversation towards breaking up monopolies, than to point out said monopolies by name. An abstract conversation about anti-trust legislation to ease people into it? Good luck with that.

Warren is doing just fine at this. 4 years ago everyone was telling Bernie not to talk about Medicare for all. Now everyone but Biden supports it.

Corey Booker is not a strong candidate.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 9:41 am 
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Warren supports a process, so he's mischaracterizing her position. It's an example everyone understands where competition is lacking, and Facebook specifically controls too much. Leave aside it's parasitic relationship with the media.

It's not picking winners and losers, it's saying there's one winner and we're losing because of it. I don't think you can adequately illustrate the need for anti-trust legislation without pointing companies out.

She's got a whole plan for this. It's not Build the Wall, and it's more substantive than anything Cory Booker has on it so far.

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/heres-ho ... d9e0da324c


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 9:44 am 
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I guess "Medicare for all" doesn't mention a company by name, but we all know it is aimed at dismantling insurance companies. Maybe "Break up big tech" would be a bit better? Because Amazon also needs to be looked at. I'm fine with whatever they want to call it. It's simple, and I know what they mean, but I also know it will be complicated. Which is why we'd hire someone really smart like Warren to do it.

"Build a wall" was dumb but it worked. The fact that a wall hasn't been built really hasn't harmed Trump's standing with his base at all. Because even as ignorant as they may be about a lot of things, they knew it was not so simple, and are giving him a pass. It's still the direction they want/wanted to go.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 10:05 am 
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ghostrunner wrote:
Warren supports a process, so he's mischaracterizing her position. It's an example everyone understands where competition is lacking, and Facebook specifically controls too much. Leave aside it's parasitic relationship with the media.

It's not picking winners and losers, it's saying there's one winner and we're losing because of it. I don't think you can adequately illustrate the need for anti-trust legislation without pointing companies out.

She's got a whole plan for this. It's not Build the Wall, and it's more substantive than anything Cory Booker has on it so far.

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/heres-ho ... d9e0da324c



It’s difficult to fathom that someone paying attention would not already understand what you just posted.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 13 19, 10:11 am 
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Seeing all these polls with Biden with huge leads for the Dem nomination makes me really nervous Trump will win a second term. Biden is awful and will not beat Trump. It will be a replay of 2016. For every Trump scandal, there will be a mirror Biden scandal (granted, Trump's are much, much, MUCH worse, but life and politics are not fair).

I'm disappointed Warren is not doing better. She's a distant 3rd or 4th right now. It's crazy to me that someone like Buttigeig can swoop in and take all the media oxygen for a few cycles and blow away someone who is as established as Warren. I also think Buttigeig will fade in time, too, but I'm not sure which candidate those people will support instead.

I still say Cory Booker is going to surprise a lot of people. I'm not saying he's a good candidate by any means. But watch - he will have some moments where he puts out a great sound bite that will get attention. He's a relentless self-promoter and seems like he wants it more than a lot of the others. I don't know if he would ever be able to top Biden or Bernie but I think he will outlast a lot of these other candidates and do better than a lot of people are expecting.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 14 19, 8:36 am 
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lukethedrifter wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:
Warren supports a process, so he's mischaracterizing her position. It's an example everyone understands where competition is lacking, and Facebook specifically controls too much. Leave aside it's parasitic relationship with the media.

It's not picking winners and losers, it's saying there's one winner and we're losing because of it. I don't think you can adequately illustrate the need for anti-trust legislation without pointing companies out.

She's got a whole plan for this. It's not Build the Wall, and it's more substantive than anything Cory Booker has on it so far.

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/heres-ho ... d9e0da324c



It’s difficult to fathom that someone paying attention would not already understand what you just posted.


But most voters are not paying attention. If the youth vote Dem and you're a Dem candidate saying "break up Facebook" you're saying to those voters that one of their primary forms of communication/entertainment, a thing they love, the thing that's often the first thing they do when they wake up in the morning is inherently bad. Young people don't distrust Facebook, IG or WhatsApp, as they should. They'll trade followers and likes for privacy and the marketing that gets targeted at them because they're just not savvy or wise like that.

You've gotta frame this, for them, like it's the environment. Kids get behind environmental stuff. They don't want to inherit a toxic earth. They also don't want to inherit a toxic economic system, and there's a way to package that message to them that doesn't expressly threaten to take away the thing they love most.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Election
PostPosted: May 14 19, 10:00 am 
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Elizabeth Warren's Twitter thread explaining her "hard pass" on participating in a Fox News town hall is glorious.



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