GatewayRedbirds.com

A Message Board Dedicated to Discussing St. Louis Cardinals Baseball!
It is currently June 18 19, 8:41 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 10:32 am 
Online
Replies Authoritatively
User avatar

Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Posts: 6698
Location: Chicago, IL
Deregulation can go in a bunch of other general topics but I thought it would be good to have its own thread because it's a pretty big deal.

Last month this was a big one.

Obama had signed a bill that was to go into effect 1/16/19. The bill was to add regulations to payday lenders, who are basically just people who prey on the poor, charging them as much as 400% APR for a paycheck advance. Jan 16 was going to be kind of a day of reckoning for payday lenders. For a bit of terrible perspective, here is a piece from the garbage Washington Times talking a few years ago about how Obama regulating the payday lenders would "sink lenders", rather than protect consumers. So basically the day that the bill was to come into effect came along and the Trump administration decided to suspend the bill indefinitely.

Basically: F you, poor people. There's an industry that preys on you we need to look out for. About as good a nutshell as you can find for this awful administration.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 10:34 am 
Offline
Consider him admonished
User avatar

Joined: March 25 15, 9:59 am
Posts: 8119
Location: Charleston, SC via Arkansas
How should those who need loans obtain one if banks are unwilling?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 10:39 am 
Online
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: April 18 06, 9:40 pm
Posts: 24092
Tim wrote:
How should those who need loans obtain one if banks are unwilling?


For now, regulated lenders.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 10:43 am 
Offline
Consider him admonished
User avatar

Joined: March 25 15, 9:59 am
Posts: 8119
Location: Charleston, SC via Arkansas
ghostrunner wrote:
Tim wrote:
How should those who need loans obtain one if banks are unwilling?


For now, regulated lenders.

I don’t know much about this industry, but are you talking about payday lenders but capping the interest they can charge?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 10:51 am 
Online
Replies Authoritatively
User avatar

Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Posts: 6698
Location: Chicago, IL
A good start would be the kind of regulation Obama was putting in place with that bill. Part of it was to limit the exorbitant 400% interest rates some of them charge. Part of the bill was requiring these check cashing joints to determine the ability to repay before lending the money. This is a HUGE part of the fleecing of the poor. You ever drive by one of those car lots that has a sign that says "No credit check, we approve everyone"? They don't do anything to determine someone's ability to repay, they just approve the loan. It works like this.

Dealer buys car at auction for $4500, spends $500 to fix it up.
Dealer puts $10,000 sticker on car.
Poor person gets credit at dealer, puts $1500 down.
If poor person pays off 3-year 24% loan* dealer makes about $8500 profit on the $5000 investment, for a huge ROI. But: dealer does not want this, because.....
If poor person defaults after a year, dealer pays someone $250 to repo the car.
Dealer has made the $1500 downpayment plus a year of $155/mo payments for about $3150 total revenue on $5000 investment (incl. repo cost.)
Dealer puts car back on the lot at $8500.
Next poor person** gets credit at dealer, ........ ***

The cycle continues. The dealer is not required to make sure the person they're extending credit to can pay it back. Same with payday loan agencies. So a poor person whose bi-weekly paycheck is $1000 who REALLY needs $200 before payday and takes that loan, who can't afford to pay it back right away, ends up racking up HUGE additional debt in interest rates and fees for collection agencies. Their ability, even if they increase their income, to rent an apartment, get a car at a conventional loan rate, get a credit card to be that payday loan in the future at about 1/16 the interest rate, all goes out the window.


*IIRC the last time I bought a car on credit my interest rate was 4%, so the poor pay six times that.
**Poor person can also be unpoor person, can have a $80k/year salary but be a dummy with their money and unable to get a conventional loan.
***If 2nd poor person to buy car pays it all off, dealer makes $11,200 on them. That's now $14,500 on a $5250 investment. If 2nd poor person defaults after a year, dealer has made $4200 off them and has now made like $7300 off two poor people and a $5500 investment and the car is back on the lot with a $7000 sticker on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 11:34 am 
Offline
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress

Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Posts: 23725
Location: St. Louis
The rollback of Obama clean waterway protections is alarming. Theoretically unprotects a significant percentage of fresh water drainage in US- like 1/4th.

Let me know if you want info on this.
On regulation in general:
A libertarian view is regulation is bad. Personal responsibilty. How is an individual supposed to check make sure his/her water is clean, air isnt full of pollution, food and products -are not full of poisons and carcinogens?

Yes- Regulation can be expensive and burdensome for the smaller guy. And reg effectiveness can be questionable.
These are aspects that a functioning govt should addess with aid of experts in science etc. Good govt can do things to help the little guy abide.

Instead, we have industry lobbyists writing the rules, and wrecking any good govt that exist.

Turning pollution guidlelines over to states is a GOP/industry scam. Pollution, water etc don't know state borders. It is far too easy to for industry to buy a state.

I realize state regs cuts both ways, places like California have higher standards than Fed. Having federal minimal standards should not preclude a state from having more stringent emissoons standards, higher min wage or what not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 11:47 am 
Offline
Consider him admonished
User avatar

Joined: March 25 15, 9:59 am
Posts: 8119
Location: Charleston, SC via Arkansas
33, I hear what you’re saying, but (doing my best to not sound callous) the poor person shouldn’t be in the market for a car right now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 11:51 am 
Offline
Consider him admonished
User avatar

Joined: March 25 15, 9:59 am
Posts: 8119
Location: Charleston, SC via Arkansas
Freed, I’d push back a bit on your libertarian view of environmental regulations. Gary Johnson wasn’t for getting rid of the EPA. One may view pollution, industrial waste as entities that would do us harm, thus government should be used to protect us from them. An individual can’t protect themselves from climate change, thus it is incumbent upon the government to help provide a solution. An individual can protect their self from a loan shark, by not using a loan shark.


Last edited by Tim on February 7 19, 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 11:52 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: November 9 06, 6:45 am
Posts: 19841
Location: a proud midwestern metropolis
33, I understand your point but I'm pretty sure the car business isn't that easy.

My car loan is something like 2.19%. This is a good example of 2019 white privilege. It's basically free money and I get this by being a member of my stepdad's credit union, who's in that union by being a pilot like his dad was before him, who owned a plane which afforded him the opportunity to learn to fly in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deregulation
PostPosted: February 7 19, 11:54 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: November 9 06, 6:45 am
Posts: 19841
Location: a proud midwestern metropolis
Tim wrote:
33, I hear what you’re saying, but (doing my best to not sound callous) the poor person shouldn’t be in the market for a car right now.

Signing a predatory loan is probably never a good idea, but depending on what you do and where you are, having a car is more or less necessary.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ghostrunner and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group